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I'm completely new to listbuilding, so I'd appreciate all the help I can get, is this a somewhat useable list? If not, what needs to be added, and what needs to go?

Headquarters
Panzergrenadier Lehr Kompanie HQ
1 Cmd SMG team
1 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team
2 Sd Kfz 251/1
75 pts.

Combat Platoons
Panzergrenadier Lehr Platoon
1 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team
3 Tank-hunter team
3 Sd Kfz 251/1
1 Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm)
6 MG team
290 pts.

Panzergrenadier Lehr Platoon
1 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team
3 Tank-hunter team
3 Sd Kfz 251/1
1 Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm)
6 MG team
290 pts.

Weapons Platoons
Panzergrenadier Lehr Heavy Mortar Platoon
1 Cmd SMG team
2 Kubelwagen
2 Observer Rifle team
4 12cm sGW43 mortar
150 pts.

Panzergrenadier Lehr Anti-tank Gun Platoon p.106
1 Cmd SMG team
3 7.5cm PaK40 gun
155 pts.

Divisional Support
Panther Lehr Platoon
3 Panther A
560 pts.

Armoured Rocket Launcher Battery
1 Cmd SMG team
1 Kfz 15 field car
1 Observer Rifle team
1 Kubelwagen
4 Panzerwerfer 42 (5+ crew - counts double)
230 pts.

Company Points: 1750 pts.

Thankful for any response of any kind

As a Lehr Player, I love them to bits, However they do struggle with the high cost of Infantry (with Transports).

They are great if defensive and dug in, they are great at mobility stuff. But in the offensive against armour, it gets difficult, your troops are ace with AT skills but need to be close. So it's about hugging the ground and getting in good positions.

I used to take the 12cm mortars for their FP, but found it expensive, instead I started taking 8cm Mortar 251's and because they are Portee, you can dismount them. 2 Tubes is not a problem because they are mainly used to lay smoke and protect my transports and troops from arty and armour firing MG's and Main guns at them.

Panthers - Expensive, but always good. I used to take a pair of Tiger but despite their Aces skills they never really paid off for me, especially in tank duels they tend to lose to the overwhelming weight of enemy fire. So 3 panthers for 560 is actually bloody good, and pays off due to their ridiculously good Gun.

Panzerwerfer 42's are awesome, but you need a screening force for them, and Lehr is so expensive you cannot afford a cheap unit to protect them from marauding Recon units, or fast moving wheeled vehicles with weapons like HMG's or above. I tend to stormtrooper them continuously to keep them out of LOS and lose the trails. Have you considered that 3 = 6 in bombardment so dropping to 3 might save you points?

It's a strong list, but you might want to consider Recon, PUMA's are pretty strong, and possibly reduce or drop the 12cm Mortars to take a HMG Team and combat attach it?

I go for a Combat attachments, so taking a 2 Section Platoon instead of 3 sections. Buy a HMG section for a Heavy Wps Platoon, and then combat attach them to the 2 section platoon.

This gives two full platoons, but one has a pair of HMG's so makes it ideal for holding objectives (dug in) or blocking the movement of Infantry and softskin vehicles, throw in the AT guns and it gets very prickly.

Thanks for the tips!

As I'm really new to the game, I don't quite know what the recce-rule means here, but here's my updated list:

Headquarters
Panzergrenadier Lehr Kompanie HQ p.103
2 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team
2 Sd Kfz 251/1
85 pts.

Combat Platoons
Panzergrenadier Lehr Platoon p.104
1 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team
2 Tank-hunter team
2 Sd Kfz 251/1
1 Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm)
4 MG team
185 pts.

Panzergrenadier Lehr Platoon p.104
1 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team
2 Tank-hunter team
2 Sd Kfz 251/1
1 Sd Kfz 251/10 (3.7cm)
4 MG team
185 pts.

Panzergrenadier Lehr Heavy Platoon p.104
1 Cmd SMG team
1 Sd Kfz 251/1
4 MG42 HMG
2 Sd Kfz 251/1 (HMG) half-track
1 Observer Rifle team
1 Kubelwagen
2 Sd Kfz 251/2 (8cm)
250 pts.

Weapons Platoons
Panzergrenadier Lehr Anti-tank Gun Platoon p.106
1 Cmd SMG team
3 7.5cm PaK40 gun
155 pts.

Divisional Support
Panther Lehr Platoon p.100
3 Panther A
560 pts.

Puma Panzerspäh Lehr Platoon p.114
3 Sd Kfz 234/2 (Puma)
150 pts.

Armoured Rocket Launcher Battery p.201
1 Cmd SMG team
1 Kfz 15 field car
1 Observer Rifle team
1 Kubelwagen
2 Panzerwerfer 42 (5+ crew - counts double)
180 pts.

Company Points: 1750 pts.

I've gone with the Scout bikes as Recce for my Lehr. The motorcycle rules basically create a very fast moving infantry section (minus the panzerschreks) that can dig in on the opponents objectives or likely ambush positions. Everybody goes on about how good Puma's are but I love how versatile the motorbikes are.

As for arty, I went with the 10.5mm's, purely because I love the models.

My three pumas are easily changed into a full platoon of recce bikes, but as I understand it, half of them actually walks around.

They just seem to be more unprotected, slower and with less firepower than the pumas, am I incorrect here?

No, I think thats just how they represented it in the V2 books. From what I understand you have 1 bike which, when dismounted, becomes an MG team. So I think they just represent this as having an MG team icon next to the Bike icon to let you know what it becomes when dismounted.

If it had a rifle team icon next to the bike icon then this is what they would become if they were dismounted.

OK, thanks! That makes much more sense

But, that means that I get 4 infantrystands with mgs vs. three tanks with 3 in front armour and a decent gun, won't the bikes be a bit too easy to just hose down?

Thats true. You just have to make the best use of cover. A small bike is a bit easier to hide than an armoured car.

It's all down to preference and experience. try using both and see how you get on. I love the bikes because it's such an iconic German vehicle. Whereas I'm not a fan of the Puma (I much prefer the cool look of a Sd kfz 222).

I currently mix it up between the Panzer Lehr and a Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier list from Grey Wolf. In that list I can have both a motorcycle team and a Panzerspah (armoured car) team.

A platoon of the bikers kicks in at under 7 GBPs, so I'll buy both and try them out

Never ever (I mean this nicely) think a PUMA is a Tank. It really isn't it's armour is next to useless, it does posses a good gun and that is it's sting in the tail.

To use Recce Troops to attack in battle is foolhardy (unless it is another Recce Unit, or a juicy opportunity like arty or a vulnerable unit in the open at close range!). They are great for quick objective snatches and supporting other units or assaults but should never be used to lead an assault.

To explain Recce easily, in many games you will be up against dug in, infantry. These guys can be Gone to Ground, e.g Cowering at the bottom of their shell scrape or Trench. Making them damn near impossible to hit needing 6+ most of the time.

Using Recce you can roll a Skill check to remove their GTG Status. So instead of needing 6+ to Hit, it's now 5+ to hit for every unit in your army shooting at them from now on!

This makes all of your shooting much more effective, (hitting 1/3 of the time, rather than 1/6 of the time). Recce can also dive for cover or Break-off/Disengage when shot at by the enemy, this can be a doubled edged sword because you then need to reorganised in your next turn, but it can get them out of trouble.

Also and very importantly, Recce units force Enemy Ambush units to be further away and allows you to create a "NO-GO" Bubble around valuable units (like panthers) if you don't want the Enemy to ambush you with AT Guns or AT infantry or at least pushes these units further away when they do reveal their cunning tactic.

Did that make sense?

Also Bikers are useful, because you aren't tempted to use them as Pseudo-Tanks which is a trap many players with PUMA's fall into. Instead you use them to Reveal Enemy units, and to protect other units from Ambushes.

Here is my Generic Lehr List and you will see it's very close to yours.

HQ = 65pts Basic

COMBAT

Combat Plt A = 3 Full sections + Faust

Combat Plt B = 2 Full Sections + Faust

Heavy Plt C = 2 x HMG + 2 x 251 8cm ( the two HMG's normally combat attach to Combat Platoon B to make it full strength)

WEAPONS

AT Guns = 3 x Pak 40 (always good)

AAA Guns = 3 x 10/5 (Good against Aircraft and shooting the crap out of Softskins and Infantry to pin them)

DIVISIONAL

4 x Jagdpanzer (basically a STUG in a different Frock)

3 x PUMA's

4 x Panzer Werfers + Extra crew

I can swap elements in and out, so losing a Werfer and the HMG's I can get TIGERS or PANTHERS. If I'm feeling nasty, I will take a Pair of Flak 36's with Extra crew the ability to knocking Aircraft and Tanks makes them a dangerous unit to Heavy Tanks and compliment my Tigers well if I take them, as the Enemy usually will not cross open ground to get at the mighty 88's.

I have also found the 7/2 AAA to be very good against dug in infantry due to it's 4+ FP and ROF. It can really put the hurt on dug in infantry.

For recce on the German side, I tend to like the Sd Kfz 231 (8-rads) myself as they're decent against infantry and you're not tempted to fight anything bigger than that.

Points-wise (especially in Grey Wolf) they're cheap enough to run with panzer lists and can keep up with the formation in a war of manuever.

I like the Pumas, but their gun is really tempting to use against bigger targets lol! I have to keep my recce in its role, so I tend to use the 8-rads instead.

@Third Ultra you sir, are completely right. I would take RAD-8's but Lehr had only PUMA's, annoyingly. The Recce Half tracks are okay, especially cross country, where they have the edge, but on roads etc the Puma's and RAD's race away, as I said the Gun on a Puma is awesome especially against other Recce Units and targets of opportunity (like AAA units, Softskins and Infantry units in the open or even dug in).

Does anybody know if the same turrets were used in 222 and 231?

OK, but if I drop the pumas for some Recce half tracks, and the panzerfausts on the command, I can get an extra panzerwerfer.

Is this a good trade off?

Yeah, it's a personal thing, the Panzerfausts are useful on the Cmd Stands and you get (effectively) another 2 Werfers in Bombardment, and you neatly side step the Puma trap.

mwnciboo wrote:@Third Ultra you sir, are completely right. I would take RAD-8's but Lehr had only PUMA's, annoyingly. The Recce Half tracks are okay, especially cross country, where they have the edge, but on roads etc the Puma's and RAD's race away, as I said the Gun on a Puma is awesome especially against other Recce Units and targets of opportunity (like AAA units, Softskins and Infantry units in the open or even dug in).

Yeah, looking at E&S now; those Pumas are pretty cheap (150) for a base-platoon size of 3 of them so I can see, especially since you're limited to these or the half-tracks, where these would be pretty useful.

I know if I were running them I would be tempted to use the big-gun on those Pumas a little too much lol!