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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey guys, I'm a little bit of a beginner player for necrons, and I have this friend of mine who plays tyranids, and I can't seem to stop this particular list of his.

Usually, we play around 1750 points. What I usually bring is:

HQ
Nemesor
Royal Court: 5 Crypteks of Destruction, 1 Lord with Resurrection Orb

Troops
6 x 5 warriors

Fast Attack
4 destroyers, 3 heavy
6 Wraiths 5 whip coils, 1 pistol
10 Scarabs

Heavy Support
3 Spyders
3 Spyders

Total: 1750

His list looks something like this (I can't exactly recall if this is 1750 points, but it should be around there)
HQ
Swarmlord

Troops
2 x 15 Termagaunts with Devourers, both come in spore pods
2 Tervigons with catalyst

Eiltes
The Doom in a spore pod
3 Zoanthorpes in a spore pod

Fast attack
20 Gargoyles

Heavy Support
Trygon

Typically, what he does is he deploys the 2 tervigons, swarmlord, the trygon, and gargoyles. The trygon and the swarmlord move up together (trygon in front, protecting the swarm lord), and the tervigons stay behind and spawn termagaunts to hold objectives. He's very good at protecting his Swarmlord, so he hides his guys so that I don't have line of sight with him with...anything. By the time it's turn 2, he usually gets most or all of his deep striking units in. Then, I spend the rest of the game trying to hold this off, so it always ends up that he either takes my objectives, or he contests them. In either case, he wins the game because he still has his termagaunts on his deployment zone holding his objectives.

If the games were purge the alien, I know that I can beat him. But all the games I've played so far in 6th with him were all missions like the scouring and big guns never tire, all of which are objectives games.

Is there anything I should change in my list, or perhaps is there some tactic that'll help me get around this?

   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought






AL

First off, Why are you taking so many Spyders? It seems hardly justifiable to have so many when other Heavy Support options are so much better or when you can even get a couple Night Scythes or Ghost Arks for your troops.

Next, while all the fast attack options are pretty nice, each one tends to work better in pairs (so two squads of wraiths/destroyers/etc, one by itself isn't that effective except in about 1000 point or less games) with scarabs in this case being almost entirely pointless aside from a little speed bump. Either go two-three squads of Wraiths, two-three squads of destroyers, or hell, get two squads of Tomb blades with particle beamers/tesla carbines to lay down some hurt.

Also, a stormtek with ether crystal(?) might be nice in the event that one of his units deepstrike a bit too close to you.

Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.

"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

I would spend more energy focusing on the tervigons than the swarm lord. You have some decent mobility and long range shooting. Since he screens his swarmlord go for him later. If he loses his scoring he can't win and 5 out of 6 are objectives. Also a lot of small units is great for the doom since he is on a per unit basis.

Also not exactly sure what your list is trying to do. I have an idea but it doesn't seem too synergistic

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Your warrior units are way too small and easily killed off. You've spent too many points in your FA and HS.

If the Warriors were all riding in Night Scythes they might be viable as late game objective grabbers, but as it is they aren't even viable to hold objectives.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




lol the spyders and the scarabs are usually the only saving grace for me. kill points wise, i'm usually ahead because when I build massive amounts of scarabs, they eat everything, including monstrous creatures (killed his trygon ). however, as that doesn't help me in terms of objectives. I guess getting ghost arks or doom scythes would help me more in this case.

If I removed all the spyders and scarabs, then that should make room for 4 ghost arks or doom scythes. But are transports really the only way to deal with deep striking tyranids?
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Kill points only matter in 1/6 of missions now. Objectives are in the other 5.

Warriors should be at least 15 strong. 20 is mopre durable. Especially when babysitted by a Ghost Ark. They can be nigh unstoppable. I saw a game vs BAs in which a Warrior unit took over 20 casualities over the course of the game, but ended the game only 7 warriors down from the original 20. Thanks to a couple Ghost Arks and the sillyness that is a Warscyth lord.


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




I do have some immortals. Sadly, I currently do not own night scythes or ghost arks, but i shall try and get some asap.

i do have a game against him tonight, so I was thinking perhaps this should be my revised list.

HQ
Nemesor
Royal Court 5 crypteks of destruction (nemesor attached here)

Troops
3 x 10 warriors
2 x 9 immotals with gauss blasters

Fast Attack
5 scarabs
5 scarabs
6 Wraiths 3 whip coils

Heavy Support
3 spyders
3 spyders

my plan is when all his units deep strike, I start sending scarabs and spyders to contest his objective, while everyone else fights. I shall try to focus fire his tervigons in the meantime with my crypteks. i shall also send my wraiths after his MC's. When the doom comes down, i'll instant kill it with my crypteks, but if he gets lucky, i'll send one group of scarabs to finish him. or perhaps i'll just send my scarabs to finish him and have my crypteks focus on other things.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

All my advice for the most part is generalized as I don't advocate list tailoring, but I am giving advice for how it will work against the tyranids

I would spread your crypteks out to the units simply for the fact that all your anti large vehicles is not enemy #1. Also when they are in other units if the unit gets wiped out with everliving the cryptek can still get up and will count as scoring. Very handy for objective missions. The biggest problem with this list is that everything right now plays to his advantage. You are very close ranged, very little ranged damage output and that is something you need against tyranids. I liked the heavy destroyers I would keep them in(I am very biased however in this regard, they work really well for me as long as you know how to keep them safe, only risking them for a huge payoff)

I would change the unit size of the warriors to 1 unit of 10 and 1 of 20. Have the 10 with nothing in it just sit on your objective, they should(with shooting) be able to fend off any basic unit.

I would change it to 1 unit of spyders a 10 man unit of scarabs,

Not sure how the points work on this so far but I figure dropping one lance cryptek and combined with the changes above should have a good number of points still to work with.

People who stopped buying GW but wont stop bitching about it are the vegans of warhammer

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One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





trentblack201 wrote:I do have some immortals. Sadly, I currently do not own night scythes or ghost arks, but i shall try and get some asap.

i do have a game against him tonight, so I was thinking perhaps this should be my revised list.

HQ
Nemesor
Royal Court 5 crypteks of destruction (nemesor attached here)

Troops
3 x 10 warriors
2 x 9 immotals with gauss blasters

Fast Attack
5 scarabs
5 scarabs
6 Wraiths 3 whip coils

Heavy Support
3 spyders
3 spyders

my plan is when all his units deep strike, I start sending scarabs and spyders to contest his objective, while everyone else fights. I shall try to focus fire his tervigons in the meantime with my crypteks. i shall also send my wraiths after his MC's. When the doom comes down, i'll instant kill it with my crypteks, but if he gets lucky, i'll send one group of scarabs to finish him. or perhaps i'll just send my scarabs to finish him and have my crypteks focus on other things.


Try this instead. I think this is 1750 (if my calcs are right):

HQ

Destroyer Lord
Nemesor Zahndrekh

Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff, VoD
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff

Troops

1 x 10 warriors (2 x Harbinger of Despair, Nemsor Zahndrekh)
1 x 10 warriors (1 x Harbinger of the Storm) w/ Nightscythe
1 x 9 immotals with gauss blasters (2 x Harbinger of Despair)

Fast Attack

10 Scarabs
6 Wraiths 3 whip coils (1 x Destroyer Lord)

Heavy Support

3 spyders (1 Gloom Prism)
Annhiliation Barge
Annhiliation Barge

If you absolutely have to have the Spyders in your list, I'd make sure to add Gloom Prisms to them -- especially against Tyranids b/c of Biomancy bananas stuff.

Oh and just as a side note. If you are playing a 'Nid list specifically and want to really tailor it (which is cheesy) just play a Doomscythe/Nightscythe list. Like 2-3 Nightscythes with troops and 3 Doomscythes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/24 00:10:28


 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

drakkenj wrote:
trentblack201 wrote:I do have some immortals. Sadly, I currently do not own night scythes or ghost arks, but i shall try and get some asap.

i do have a game against him tonight, so I was thinking perhaps this should be my revised list.

HQ
Nemesor
Royal Court 5 crypteks of destruction (nemesor attached here)

Troops
3 x 10 warriors
2 x 9 immotals with gauss blasters

Fast Attack
5 scarabs
5 scarabs
6 Wraiths 3 whip coils

Heavy Support
3 spyders
3 spyders

my plan is when all his units deep strike, I start sending scarabs and spyders to contest his objective, while everyone else fights. I shall try to focus fire his tervigons in the meantime with my crypteks. i shall also send my wraiths after his MC's. When the doom comes down, i'll instant kill it with my crypteks, but if he gets lucky, i'll send one group of scarabs to finish him. or perhaps i'll just send my scarabs to finish him and have my crypteks focus on other things.


Try this instead. I think this is 1750 (if my calcs are right):

HQ

Destroyer Lord
Nemesor Zahndrekh

Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff, VoD
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff
Harbinger of Despair, Abyssal Staff

Troops

1 x 10 warriors (2 x Harbinger of Despair, Nemsor Zahndrekh)
1 x 10 warriors (1 x Harbinger of the Storm) w/ Nightscythe
1 x 9 immotals with gauss blasters (2 x Harbinger of Despair)

Fast Attack

10 Scarabs
6 Wraiths 3 whip coils (1 x Destroyer Lord)

Heavy Support

3 spyders (1 Gloom Prism)
Annhiliation Barge
Annhiliation Barge

If you absolutely have to have the Spyders in your list, I'd make sure to add Gloom Prisms to them -- especially against Tyranids b/c of Biomancy bananas stuff.

Oh and just as a side note. If you are playing a 'Nid list specifically and want to really tailor it (which is cheesy) just play a Doomscythe/Nightscythe list. Like 2-3 Nightscythes with troops and 3 Doomscythes.


You need two separate courts (Which requires two overlords) To put two court members in a squad, so this is illegal. I'd also say it really isn't that good against Nids.

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Made in us
One Canoptek Scarab in a Swarm





Sasori wrote:You need two separate courts (Which requires two overlords) To put two court members in a squad, so this is illegal.


Yeah, totally spaced about the 2 crypteks per squad needing 2 courts. That's easily fixed by simply nixing 2 crypteks (or adding another non Dlord). I'd probably reclaim the 60 points for something else.

Sasori wrote:I'd also say it really isn't that good against Nids.


My goal wasn't really to build a list that was awesome against Tyranids. I was trying to work with his initial list to make something more rounded that might do better for him while keeping relatively close to what models he listed initially. Not much worse than going on the internet and asking for help with a list and then someone comes on and proposes a crazy list that uses none of the models you have or don't even have enough proxies for. IMHO, trimming troops, adding Despairteks, a few fliers, and some A Barges certainly are going to make the list a bit stronger.

Sasori wrote:I'd also say it really isn't that good against Nids.


Also, you usually have good feedback Sasori. Dunno if you were pressed for time, but adding in what -is- good vs. Tyranids (and why) as far as a dicussion might be more helpful, rather than just kinda commenting on how poor my choices were.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/24 03:46:51


 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

Also, you usually have good feedback Sasori. Dunno if you were pressed for time, but adding in what -is- good vs. Tyranids (and why) as far as a dicussion might be more helpful, rather than just kinda commenting on how poor my choices were.


I've been a lot busier lately, so I do apologize for the quick respose, was kind of a on my way out kind of thing.


Anyway, on the the meat and potatoes.

HQ
Nemesor
Royal Court: 5 Crypteks of Destruction, 1 Lord with Resurrection Orb

Troops
6 x 5 warriors

Fast Attack
4 destroyers, 3 heavy
6 Wraiths 5 whip coils, 1 pistol
10 Scarabs

Heavy Support
3 Spyders
3 Spyders

Total: 1750


This reads a lot like a 5th edition list, (Like the massed Lanceteks) so, as with any change we will need to adapt to it. I'll go piece by piece on what I think.

Nemesor

I'm honestly not a fan of him. You're paying a lot of points, for a tactically flexiable character, but with somewhat limited use. He's not a bad character per say, but I prefer to take a Vanilla Overlord most of the time.

Royal Court: 5 Crypteks of Destruction, 1 Lord with Resurrection Orb


With the fundemental changes in 6th, we really don't need to spam these guys anymore. You could probably take 1 for a Solar pulse in a TAC and be pretty set. You may consider swapping these guys out for other Court Options, or just using the points elsewhere.

Troops
6 x 5 warriors


With the New emphasis on objectives, this is proably a poor choice. You want to either buff these guys up by combining a few squads, Start taking Immortals, or a combination of both. They are both Solid options, but you have to practice care with the big blobs, and your Lords getting sniped out now. I honestly prefer taking Immortals now as my troops. With the changes to Gauss, any way you outfit your troops, they should be shredding the smaller bugs before they can get close to you.

4 destroyers, 3 heavy

You'd probably want to bump the squad up to 5, and drop a heavy. Two is plenty, most of the time, for both Anti-tank, and Anti-infantry. A pretty strong choice, now.

6 Wraiths 5 whip coils, 1 pistol

Wraiths are always a great choice. I'd personally consider dropping the pistol though, since wound allocation has changed. Getting more Wraiths is never a bad thing, I think another squad could serve you well.

10 Scarabs

I'm really not feeling these guys anymore. With the advent of hullpoints, I just feel they are not really needed anymore. I'd really put these points to use elsewhere.

Heavy Support
3 Spyders
3 Spyders

Spyders are a great value MC, but I honestly think with scarabs not being as useful anymore, these guys take a bit of a hit. They aren't a bad choice by any means, but I feel that there are better options in a more optimized list.


You have a few routes you can go. You can go all out flyers, and Tesla him to death. From that list, his Army really has nothing that can deal with flyers. They'll just zoom around and blast him to death. However, there are other routes you can go.

Typically, what he does is he deploys the 2 tervigons, swarmlord, the trygon, and gargoyles. The trygon and the swarmlord move up together (trygon in front, protecting the swarm lord), and the tervigons stay behind and spawn termagaunts to hold objectives. He's very good at protecting his Swarmlord, so he hides his guys so that I don't have line of sight with him with...anything. By the time it's turn 2, he usually gets most or all of his deep striking units in. Then, I spend the rest of the game trying to hold this off, so it always ends up that he either takes my objectives, or he contests them. In either case, he wins the game because he still has his termagaunts on his deployment zone holding his objectives.


If he is using the Trygon to protect the Swarmlord, that means he's going at a much slower speed. Use that to your advantage. The Trygon should be your number 1 Priority, along with the Gargoyles. The fact that he's not using Tyrant guard also gives you a powerful advantage against the Swarmlord. Honestly, depending on how you build your list, you can put enough firepower to smoke that Trygon in single turn, without problem. The Swarmlord will probably take about 3-4 turns to get into combat with you, so I'd worry about him later. Whatever you do, don't send Wraiths against the Swarmlord, as he will obliterate them.

Heres a quick list I came up, while not a perfect TAC, I think it'd do fairly well. I did not include any flyers in it.

1750 Pts -

1 Overlord Warscythe; Mindshackle Scarabs; Sempiternal Weave; Phase Shifter;


1 Destroyer Lord, Warscythe; Sempiternal Weave; Mindshackle Scarabs

9 Immortals,

8 Immortals,

8 Immortals,


5 Destroyers Heavy Gauss Cannon x2

5 Destroyers, Heavy Gauss Cannon x2;

6 Canoptek Wraiths,; Whip Coil x3;

1 Annihilation Barge

1 Annihilation Barge

1 Annihilation Barge

This was just a quick list, not super optimized, so it can be tinkered really easy to suit your needs. There is no court, so no real need for an Overlord, you can easily swamp him out for another Dlord, replace Destroyers with more Wraiths, etc etc.


As for a gameplan, I'd focus on Knocking out his Trygon first. That thing will just play with your army, if you don't take care of it. Rolling average, you should have enough firepower to take care of it in a single turn. The Wraiths and Dlord are excellent at killing Tervigons, and can move about quickly, earning you a large advantage in mobility.

Use the Destroyers to blast at his big bugs first, then his smaller bugs. You'll average pretty close to the same amount of wounds with the 3 destroyers, to the one heavy on T6 3+ saves, but it also allows you volume of fire in the cases of taking care of the smaller bugs, and Zoanthropes.

The Overlord can be whatever you need him to be. He can be swapped out, or he can be a roadblock for a big bug. Even the Swarmlord would think twice about taking on something with MSS, as that gives him pretty good chance to kill himself.

Hope this helps!

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Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




sasori thanks for the advice! the next time I face him, I shall try this list. although I only own 1 annihilation barge...perhaps I can switch two of them and bring more warriors?

and yeah, I'm not a big fan of flyers, despite the fact they are so good. Also, he'd probaby wouldn't face me if I started spamming night scyhtes xD
   
 
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