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Guys, I needed your help on my army list. This is the 1st time i try playing eldar since i normally play guard so any guidence will be much appriciated.The list is as follows:

HQ
Farseer with Guide
Pheonix Lord Karandras

Troops
10 man Guardians with scatter laser platform
10 man Dire Avenger, Exarch with 2 shuriken catapult

Elites
6 man Striking Scorpion, Exarch with Scorpion's Claw and Biting Blade
5 man Fire Dragons
Both have Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon and a Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support
Support Weapon Battery with D-Cannon

Total: 1000 points

So this is my initial thought. Dire Avenger, Guardians and the Battery with hold the Deployment Zone. Striking Scorpion and Fire Dragon will go to cause havoc. Farseer will go with Fire Dragon and Karandras will go with the Striking Scorpions. Both Wave Serpent will go to pop shot on the rear armour with S6 shots or supress enemy troops.

instead of the D-cannon squad, try war walkers. a guy at my FLGS runs 6 in his 1850 army with eldrad with prescience from the divination tree. they are amazingly good fire support. 24 rerollable shot's that wound marines on 2's is outstanding and that many shots is good against low armor flyers.

to be honest get rid of Kanandras you really don't want to use him in a 1000 point list he is more of a 2000 point man i would take an autarch and help the dire avengers a bit

If I get rid of Karandras and take autarch, what should I equip him with?


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Also, War walkers are most likely be taken out in first turn because they have low armour and only 2 hull points. This mean 2 glancing hit, it is gone.

I see no synergy in this list :( This makes me sad.

Consider that scorpions can no longer assault from their wave serpent. Fire dragons are a great unit but you don't stick your farseer with them - they don't need guide (nice though) and they will die when they're out of their tank. That is, if their serpent isn't shot down.

Dire avengers with no transport! 18" range is really short, considering the buff to rapid fire. Even necrons can kite you. That is not a good thing sir.

Consider pathfinders instead of DAs if there are no transports. Remember when you play eldar, the army as a whole is far more effective than its parts. Think of what each unit's role is in the army, and how are you going to deal with that if they are taken out.

Ok, I see your point and I agree. What if I do this, Karandras will infiltrate with the Scorpions and since they have move through come special rule the are likely to get into assult on first turn depending if I got first turn or not. If I do not get first turn, Karandras will grant the squad with stealth special rule which mean I get a 3+ cover as well as 3+ armor. Dire avengers will go on the transport instead. Now, it just leave 2 questions: how am I going to guard my deployment zone with a guardian squad and a supprot battery? Also, how will I position my farseer?


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Sorry, just to add on about why I put my Farseer with the Fire Dragon is because my dice rolling is rubbish on crucial moment that will tip the balance of the game. I hope you will now understand.

Karandras is really not worth his points. With the outflank nerf, he really doesnt have a reliable way to get to combat anymore. At 3W and no inv, he doesnt have the survivability other 200+ hqs bring to the table. Cover nerf means stealth only is a 4+ cover save now, which is also pretty average.

Farseers should never be without fortune. If you want guide, grab stones and runes, or just go with eldrad.

D cannons are pretty poor. Bs3 small blasts dont hit very often and they have no survivability. While war walkers are 2 HP, they are incredibly cheap for the shots they put out. at 40 points per model you have 6 S6 shots. At 60 you have 8 at 36". With fortune and guide they will knock anything down and survive pretty easily (5+ rerolled is close to a 3+ save).

Guardians serve no purpose in this edition. The reduction of cover saves to a 5+ means they dont even have an ability to get better saves in cover. They are squishy, weak in both shooting and assault (they dont even get krak grenades that blob guard get), and are way overcosted. At 5 pts im not even sure if they would be worth it. At 8, forget it.

Rangers perform back-line duty far better. Although they lack damage, they are more to provide objective holding. Even area terrain provides a 4+ cover save and a 2+ when gone to ground. 5 rangers put out slightly more damage than a bs3 scatter laser but can pick off models of their choice on a 6 to wound.

I disagree with seers always needing fortune. Guide/Doom is better for his more static footdar list. Fortune works best with the seer council or wraithwall. I wouldn't get an autarch - he's expensive and doesn't add much to your list. Autarchs are usually added for the reserve bonus. Any additional combat is a bonus.

This is true with the seer as well. You add the seer to buff/debuff. CC is just a plus. Consider what your target is. Is your list poor with anti-infantry? Maybe get doom. Are tanks looking to be a problem? A guided squad of war walkers would take care of that. Do you want to do both at the same time? Grab spirit stones!

The one thing yous hould never leave home without is runes of warding. The best anti-psyker defence is invaluable. It has table-wide range, 50% chance to nullify ANY psychic power, and roughly 40% chance to force perils. That means on average you inflict 3 wounds/psyker/game. That means you kill his librarian for 15 points.

D-cannons are viable in 6th. Just note their 24" range. Gunline eldar lack the durability, range, and power of IG. You might be disappointed. Eldar playstyle relies on eliminating key parts of the enemy army, instead of shock and awe.

Right, I was thinking about removing the D-cannon and 1 striking scorpion to get myself a squad of guardian jetbikes of 3. This might be able to tip the balance when I use them for contesting or grabbing objectives. Since in 6th edition, it is more likely to get objectives games than kill points.

What do you think then?

About Karandras I was thinking about mobbing onto his objectives with 7 Str 8 powerfist and 4 Str 6 powerfist attack with additional 16 normal attack on Str 4. This might stall them long enough for my Dire Avengers and The Fire Dragons to mop up the rest that they fail to kill in CC. This also requires a lot of luck and planning which is quite fun and challenging. Oh, by the way, 6 Str 6 hit re-roll from both the Wave Serpent and 6 more Str 6 shots from the shuriken cannon upgrade to glance or penetrate almost enemy tanks, obviously not Land Raider.

This left my a big Disadvantage when enemy decide to use drop pod or deep strike. The Guardians at the rear will never last for 1 round. This is what I am Frustrated about.

Any help on that disadvantage will be grateful.

Can Anyone help me please!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly at 1k points my d cannons did well. I would drop the the scorpions and their serpent and take war Walkers and a squad of jet bikes. And the avatar would be more effective than karandras imo..

Ok, I refined the list a bit after all the comments that I have collected, the list will be as follow:

HQ
Farseer with Doom (The reason I chose Doom rather than Guide because they are mostly BS4 as someone mention, however, it's the wounding part that is hard. 4+ to wound a marines, I really need to cause more wounds to make my opponent to fail his 3+ save)

Karandras (I know most people disagree but I want to try it out just because he can grant the Scorpions 3+ cover save)

Troops
10 man Dre Avengers, Exarch with 2 Shuriken Catapult
Mounted on Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon and a Shuriken Cannon Upgrade
Farseer with accompany them
(These will be my rapid response to drop pod marines or move in to support the frontline units)

10 man Guardians with Scatter Laser Platform
(They will take cover and provide cover fire or take cover and hold objectives)

3 man Guardians Jetbikes
(They will be my harrasment unit and contest objectives since they can Turbo Boast and move additional 6 inches in assualt phase)

Elites
5 man Fire Dragons
Mounted on Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon and a Shuriken Cannon Upgrade
(They will be part of the frontline units shooting high profile units such as Terminators, Davestator Squad, Land Raider, Vindicator .... etc)

5 man Striking Scropions, Exarch with Scorpion's Claw ( They will infiltrate with Karandras and throw themselves onto the largest portion of the enemy holding the objectives and stall them for some turn just to buy the rest of the army some time to move in)

I know that I didn't include War Walker in my list because 1000 points is very tight on points and Eldar are very costly. Is either you have this or that, you can't really have both under my circumstances. I decide to drop the D-Cannon because I only have 1 and the will be wiped out before they get their points back. They lack the range of a plasma cannon so they can outrange me with ease.

I personally think that Striking Scorpion is good, Str 4 attack can really dish out lots of wounds with that and they are Initiative 5. They are most likely to strike first. Against guard army, these guys come in and they will do a lot of damage. You might argue that because guard is squishy not like marines but can the marines takes 11 power fists attack that hitting on 3+? I think not.

Howling Banshees are great assualt unit, all with power weapons and all strikes at Initiative 10. but they are only Str 3 hit and they only dish out 3/4 out the attacks that a 5 man Striking Scropion with an Exarch. 5+ to kill a marine, it is like guardsmens assualting marines, mostly ended with a lot of casualties and Eldar cannot afford that kind of losses.

Anyway, This are my thought, they are free to be criticise and comment. Thank you for reading my blog.

Ok going to break it down by unit to make it easier.

kklau123456 wrote:
HQ
Farseer with Doom

Ok, he has doom...but he wants guide or fortune as well. Sense you want him with DA's pick up guide that way if/when you have to get out of the transport you have rerolls to hit and wound. You will need the runes though, a farseer is the best Psychic defence in the game currently (SW rune priests being a close 2nd).

kklau123456 wrote:Karandras (I know most people disagree but I want to try it out just because he can grant the Scorpions 3+ cover save)

Drop him, at 1000 points he is good but over-cost for what he does, especially with a min squad of scorpions tagging along but I'll get to that.

kklau123456 wrote:Troops
10 man Dre Avengers, Exarch with 2 Shuriken Catapult
Mounted on Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon and a Shuriken Cannon Upgrade

Dire Avengers are a good choise, you may want to look at some of the exharch powers, but if their in a WS you wont have them out of it till either the WS dies or the game is on turn 5 and you need to get an objective.

kklau123456 wrote:10 man Guardians with Scatter Laser Platform

Why bother, they will not last even in cover. If you want a unit to just sit there and shoot you really need Rangers.

kklau123456 wrote:3 man Guardians Jetbikes
(They will be my harrasment unit and contest objectives since they can Turbo Boast and move additional 6 inches in assualt phase)

3 Jetbikes is good but you really will want a Warlock with Embolden and a Spear to make sure these guys dont run away (consider getting the cannon upgrade for some anti-tank capability).

kklau123456 wrote:Elites
5 man Fire Dragons
Mounted on Wave Serpent with Twin-linked Shuriken Cannon and a Shuriken Cannon Upgrade
(They will be part of the frontline units shooting high profile units such as Terminators, Davestator Squad, Land Raider, Vindicator .... etc)

Can't go wrong with these guys, really can't. That being said you may want to bump up the squad size as having a suicide unit at 1000 points seems a bit wasteful.

kklau123456 wrote:5 man Striking Scropions, Exarch with Scorpion's Claw ( They will infiltrate with Karandras and throw themselves onto the largest portion of the enemy holding the objectives and stall them for some turn just to buy the rest of the army some time to move in)

Ok 5 scorpions will not do anything in all honestly. You can't infiltrate and charge on turn 1, you can't outflank and charge, so at best you have to survive 1 turn of shooting and then an overwatch (out of cover) before you even get the ability to charge, so you camp in cover and do nothing. I want to like Scorpions and Banshees but frankly eldar in this edition do not like combat unless they are harliquins and you have a character bunkered in them. I would spend these points as well as Karandras' points elsewhere, beefing up your troops choices or getting another vehicle or two.

Well try your list and when you see how much Karandas costs vs how much he does. I would drop it and the farseer for Eldrad.

HQ: Eldrad 210
Troop: 6 Pathfinders 144
Troop: 3 Bikes 66
Troop: 10 DA squad, Exarch with 2 Cats 137
Troop: 10 Another DA squad 137
Heavy: 3 Dark Reapers with Exarch, Quick Fire and EML 145
Heavy: 3 Dark Reapers with Exarch, Quick Fire and EML 145



The two exarch Dark Reapers provide you with adequate AT at 1000 points.
The pathfinders provide you with good killing power versus anything. Don't underestimate a guide on them with a doom on their target!

Two Dire Avengers provide you with great anti-personnel. I would love to add bladestorm on them but with only two squads, that can be as much a screw as a good thing. Get 3 DA squads and you can have one of them bladestorming each turn.

Keep the 3 bikes in reserve and bring them on late to take an objective or contest one.

I took no wave serpents because they are relatively easy kills in 6th edition. Hope for a new codex that reduces their cost down to about 90 with 2 cannons. If you are going to use them, go for the whole force being mobile. If not, you are going to get them tied down defending your on-foot elements and they will die.

Yaeh instead of the D-Cannon take some WW they would do so much more damage!

Well, to answer your question about Striking Scorpion, they have a 3+ save. Yes, they are regular marines save, it is better than 4+. Yes, I know I need to withstand 1 round of fire, which is pratically what they are, a baiter squad. They cost a lot and there is my warlord in there. If playing Kill points, that is worth 3 kill points, will you not tempted to kill them???

They have 3+ armour save and a 3+ cover save, can you really kill them all???

Eldar really is all about synergy, and currently I would say shooting is their strong suite, not CC. Load up on weapons that provide fire from the greatest range. Stronger weapons as you get closer of course.

HQ
I love Karandras, think he's one of the coolest options, although he's really expensive for a 1000 point game. I wouldn't infiltrate him all on his own though. With infiltrate you can choose a piece of terrain that's more conducive for him to survive with his scorpions. Say a nice piece of ruins so he has a 3+ invul now. Leave him in the front at that so the large portion of wounds are being taken by a 2+ 3++ character. Easy to save and takes all those heavy shots. Want to make him really survivable and put a fortune seer with that same squad. Now he can re-roll.

Farseer: I totally agree about the runes of warding,, it is worth losing a DA or some other piece of the puzzle for that 15 points. Those runes can single handly counter a grey knight armies strengths.

Troops:
guardians are stronger with the overwatch, but it's just a big clumsy footprint to deal with, and with focus fire, they have to be babysat for so much to get those 4 low bs shots that don't penetrate ap. 5 rangers for the same cost are more survivable, easier to hide, and provide more consistent damage at 36 inches.

I like to run my jet bikes without cannons so I don't slow them down to fire that one gun. I have those same poor roles at crucial points. So one str 6 shot connecting, against armor that it will need a 5/6 to glance...not worth it. I've been running them with 5 base jet bikes. Very durable, juke save, and I don't feel bad about either boosting 60" to avoid things, or get right up to that 12" line (yay pre-measuring). Those twin linked guns hit more and force more saves and can take out a couple of marines, or chew right through an imperial guard squad at the right time.

Elite:
Fire dragons: In the new shootyK I have trouble with the 12" range. Best I've done is keep them in a serpent, and put it in reserve, so it can come in after your opponent has already moved closer to you.

Scorpions: Kind of went over them already. Your opponent won't want to charge into terrain to assault them, and being fleet you can re-roll your charge range. Pre-measuring once again to the rescue, let's you know when it's time to move out of the trees and charge. They don't fair as well against marines with their armor saves, but if used at just the right time you can make it work. I believe having Karandras gives his fleet to the other members of his squad.

Fast attack:
Vypers can be fun to run with your jetbikes, another platform that let's off that huge amount of fire power that war walkers do with the added bonus of a jink save.

Heavy:
D-cannons: Love them in the new version. Eat's dreadnoughts, vehicles, and terminators for dinner. I like to take them in batteries of three. They are much more durable then war walkers now with their toughness 7, and it's easy to hide the guardians in terrain.

War walkers: While they were the flavor of choice in the previous edition, I agree that they have gotten much more fragile in this version. AV 10 get's eaten alive by anything. Their too big to hide in terrain with any ease. I've found that you want 3 walkers together at a time, and to get the most out of them you have to keep a guide seer nearby. So the total cost of that one squad is 255 points plus. For three fragile vehicles.

I say run it the way you want and have fun with it. Let us know how your games go.

Thanks, I will and the game will be on this Sunday, rather excited about it. Also, about the rune of warding, it is not that I do not want to take them it's that my opponent seldom brings psyker on the field. He is more an aggressive player, using Rhino, Predator and Land Raider and come to your face with jump packs. You probably be able to guess what is in thereand what army he play. Funny enough, he put lots of good stuff in his troops, he kind of left out his warlord. Last time I faced him, he only gave him a powersword and a bolter and doesn't stick him with terminators???? Does it make sense to you?? Well for me it doesn't. So, first turn I killed his warlord and get 3 points (mission is Purge The Alien, Kill Points come from: First Blood, Slay The Warlord, and a normal primary kill point). Ouch, that hurt him so much.


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Playing Eldar is somehow like playing Obliterators in the Chao Army, have long range fire support and get stronger and better as you get closer, similar to the wargear Master of Forge have, the Convertion Beamer.

You seem completely adamant on ignoring whatever anyone tells you here so why have you even posted this in the first place?

If you want to run your list the way you have it go ahead, but it doesn't make sense to ask for help then completely ignore it.

If you want my opinion your list doesn't mesh well together and you might be unhappy with its performance against an in your face marine list. If he's packing Landraiders at 1000 pts, he's lost his mind and he's spendinga quarter of his points on a single model that might not do anything: kite it and fire away. If he's running assault terminators, on the other hand, stay away from them and maybe try shooting them with your fire dragons but do NOT charge them. This is why people like Banshees, they ignore armor, your Scorpions, and Kandaras, will turn to dust in a fight with a unit of termies. As previously mentioned, and ignored, your scorpions stand a chance of never getting in combat if your opponent has half a brain and, at best, they will be mauled after a turn or two of distracting your opponent. On top of that, what's your justification for out-flankers/infltraters when your opponent is rush at you? He'll simply leave the scorpions behind to play catch up. Doesn't seem like you care too much though so just have fun with it and hope the dice gods are on your side.

In future, if your not willing to listen to advice, don't ask for it.

P.S: Your opponent is doing what you should. Light on HQs and heavy on troops and other not-overly expensive units to get the best result from your army as a whole, not one wanna-be deathstar unit.

Well, for your information, asking for an advice doesn't mean that I should totally follow it. Ultimately, it is I who will decide what to use and what is not. It is not that I don't listen, I do listen: for example I drop out D-Cannon in favour of Jetbikes, also I swap the Scorpions out and change Dire Avenger onto the Wave Serpent instead.


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Right, about the battle that I have mentioned above, I played differently on that. At that time, I was playing static and hide behind cover. I put my Guardians Squad in cover and my Striking Scorpions BEHIND them to counter assault.

I am sinserely sorry that I didn't put it on the right way to express it. The list varies to what type of army my opponent play and how do they play them. So, it will make people confuse on what I do with them.

Didn't say it wasn't your choice, I know it is. The thing is, your post came across as you wanting serious help and advice but from there it looks as if you already know what you want to do and what you want to field. If that's the case I just don't see why you would ask for other thoughts.

Do let us know how the game went though and if any changes you took on-board helped.