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Hey guys, sorry if this has been covered, but I wanted to hear your guys' thoughts on this. I looked like Ghaz got kicked in the jimmy pretty hard. Please refute it as this kills my list. I was wondering what you all thought?

Prophet of the Waagh (from Codex)
Ghazghkull’s war cry can unleash a Waagh! of devestating proportions. Ghazghkull’s Waagh! can be summoned at any time, but only once per game, and not on the first turn. It replaces the army’s usual Waagh!- this one is better.

Ghazghkull’s Waagh lasts the remainder of that player turn and all the following player turn. During this period Ghazghkull’s saving throw is invulnerable.

Furthermore, for the furation of the Waagh! all Ork infantry units autmatically count as rolling a 6 for the Waagh movement they wish to make. All non-fleeing friendly units become Fearless for the duration of the Waagh!.

Not that no more than one Waagh! can be called per turn, so Ghazghkull cannot combine his Waagh! with the Waagh! generated by a Weirdboy.

NOW the Faq has a few things to change!

Change the second sentence to “Ghaghkull’s Waagh! can be summoned at any time , but only once per game, and not on the first game turn.”

Change the third paragraph to read “Furthermore, for the duration of the Waagh! all Ork infantry units automatically count as rolling a 6 if they Run.”

SO what that leaves us with is.

Prophet of the Waagh (from Codex w/ FAQ)
Ghazghkull’s war cry can unleash a Waagh! of devestating proportions. Ghaghkull’s Waagh! can be summoned at any time , but only once per game, and not on the first game turn. It replaces the army’s usual Waagh!- this one is better.

Ghazghkull’s Waagh lasts the remainder of that player turn and all the following player turn. During this period Ghazghkull’s saving throw is invulnerable.

Furthermore, for the duration of the Waagh! all Ork infantry units automatically count as rolling a 6 if they Run.

Not that no more than one Waagh! can be called per turn, so Ghazghkull cannot combine his Waagh! with the Waagh! generated by a Weirdboy.

SO here is my big problem. As written this is a huge nerf. For one this means no fleet for Ghaz’s ork army. There is no mention of fleet anywhere in here and of course this EPIC feat replaces the normal Waagh and is of course positively the stupidest thing ever to gain a 6″ run instead of fleet. Beyond that based on the wording of the Faq of “replacing” the entirety of the third paragraph instead of just the one sentance the boys aren’t fearless also (as opposed to saying Change the first sentence of the third paragraph, similar to the verbiage of the other change they noted).

Am I wrong? You tell me, I’d love to be wrong on this. This pretty much killed all desire I had to play my battle wagon orks from the day this Faq was release.

I’d be interested to know your (and the Internets) thoughts.

Reecius wrote:
Am I wrong? You tell me, I’d love to be wrong on this. This pretty much killed all desire I had to play my battle wagon orks from the day this Faq was release.

I’d be interested to know your (and the Internets) thoughts.

Correct. Ghaz did get nerfed. No more disembark + Run + Assault.

buuuuuuuuuuuut.

Old distance: Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 14"
New Distance: Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 8"-18", Average 13"

Yes, We got nerfed, but so did a lot of other fleeters. While He did get Nerfed, No more so than NONGHAZ ork armies who actually have a slightly longer assault than our old D6 run WAAAAGH.

I feel that Ghaz became a badass though for challenges. There is real value in having him assault the most insane opponents and 2++ his challenge. Also, he now gives people fearless where before ghaz could get dragged down by LD issues by joining units. Fearless now transfers unit-wide. So I feel he became MUCH better for his unit and is going to help a ton with keeping orks alive and killing ICs in CC.

I kinda feel like it is a wash but battlewagon orks is going to be just fine. I am taking 4 BWs to NOVA so I will see if they still perform or if I am horribly horribly wrong

Also, with Orks now able to get more HQs due to double force org and FW Dredbash allies. Lots more Warbosses and lots more NOB troopers. In a FW legal ally, I am going to take multiple warbosses and an allied Big mek so I can have more NOB TROOPS. In 2000+ you can get 4 Warbosses with 4 Nob troops and allied Big Meks. Makes having lots of NOB TROOPS a reality and Ghaz can make one a fearless murdering deathstar.

(at least I think this is alll right from what I understand I reserve the right to be wrong!)

I think they still get fleet as it is a Waaaaaah just with a few extras it did get nerfed in the sence that a 6 inch run isn't that helpful anymore now that you can't run and charge.

Get over it. He had his day.

He is still a beast in CC.

bagtagger wrote:I think they still get fleet as it is a Waaaaaah just with a few extras it did get nerfed in the sence that a 6 inch run isn't that helpful anymore now that you can't run and charge.

This. His Waaagh still confers Fleet, because the normal Waaagh does. So he wasn't nerfed any greater than every other Fleeting unit.

He got nerfed because it doesn't confer fearless anymore! That was huge for when Orks lost a huge number in combat and didn't want to run in the irks assault phase to tie a unit up until the irks next turn!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

insaniak wrote:

bagtagger wrote:I think they still get fleet as it is a Waaaaaah just with a few extras it did get nerfed in the sence that a 6 inch run isn't that helpful anymore now that you can't run and charge.

This. His Waaagh still confers Fleet, because the normal Waaagh does. So he wasn't nerfed any greater than every other Fleeting unit.

How? It specifically says it replaces the normal Waaagh!, leaving them fleetless.

It replaces the normal Waaagh, but it follows the same rules, aside from the exceptions specifically listed. Otherwise, it wouldn't have conferred Fleet last edition either...

insaniak wrote:It replaces the normal Waaagh, but it follows the same rules, aside from the exceptions specifically listed. Otherwise, it wouldn't have conferred Fleet last edition either...

RAI, maybe. However, RAW argues otherwise. It states it replaces the armies usual Waagh!

J Mac wrote:However, RAW argues otherwise. It states it replaces the armies usual Waagh!

Which, as I said, would have left him without Fleet last edition as well. It's was fairly commonly accepted that this was not the case, regardless of what the rules seem to be saying here.

Who cares? Fleet doesn't allow assaulting after running anymore. Automatic 6" run is BETTER than fleet currently.

insaniak wrote:

J Mac wrote:However, RAW argues otherwise. It states it replaces the armies usual Waagh!

Which, as I said, would have left him without Fleet last edition as well. It's was fairly commonly accepted that this was not the case, regardless of what the rules seem to be saying here.

Oh, I get it now. Sorry for my tardiness.

Your right, Ghaz did get nerfed, especially when you can buy a comparable warboss for almost half the price. Battlewagons got nerfed as well, since they now explode so much easier. But I think orks are in a better place now then they were though.

Uh, how do battlewagons explode easier?

He means opened topped BWs. Here's the numbers for open-topped

5th ed explode chance with AP -
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 1/6

6th ed explode chance with AP -
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 1/3

5th ed explode chance with AP 3-6
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 1/3

6th ed explode chance with AP 3-6
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 1/3

5th ed explode chance with AP 2
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 1/3

6th ed explode chance with AP 2
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 1/2

5th ed explode chance with AP 1
Glancing: 1/6
Penetrating: 1/2

6th ed explode chance with AP 1
Glancing: 0
Penetrating: 2/3

In other words, the only time it's harder if not the same to explode a BW is when you glance it with AP 1 weapons in 6th ed. Otherwise, it's easier to blow em up.

Well, the wrecked from 5th turned into explode. Doesn't change a thing about battlewagon survivability though. It's even harder to destroy them with AP3-6 now than before, plus all the glances which could destroy a battlewagon before are gone.

If anything, it's harder to kill now.

I specifically put only explode result chances. This is because explosion is much worse than wreck, and BWs usually carry passengers, and a (generally speaking) 4+ to wound all inside is painful for orks.

Getting one of the center battlewagons in a column wrecked was a much bigger disaster in 5th, as you had to pile out your orks somewhere within 2", usually blocking other battlewagons, leaving them clumped up for ordnance and them having to move around the wreck next turn using up the majority of their next movement.

I really preferred those cute S3 explosions leaving a 4+ cover crater in 5th to that.

Back on the waaagh! topic you also forgot that as an extra nerf ghazkull now can't prevent some boyz dying if they roll a 1 on the charge dice. Not a huge difference still something to remember.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:

Also, he now gives people fearless where before ghaz could get dragged down by LD issues by joining units. Fearless now transfers unit-wide. So I feel he became MUCH better for his unit and is going to help a ton with keeping orks alive and killing ICs in CC.

Oh this also... did he get fearless on the FAQ? I was playing against Ghaz this past sunday and when I reduced his numbers to 9 he rolled leadership, I told my friend that he didn't have to since now fearless was conferred to the whole unit but he told me that Ghaz wasn't fearless, checked the codex and yup he only has the mob rule.

So... is this on the FAQ?

nkelsch wrote:
Old distance: Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 14"
New Distance: Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 8"-18", Average 13"

The 6th Ed nerf is bigger that:

Old distance: vehicle move 12" + Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 26"
New Distance: vehicle move 6" + Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 8"-18", Average 19"

mrfantastical wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Old distance: Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 14"
New Distance: Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 8"-18", Average 13"

The 6th Ed nerf is bigger that:

Old distance: vehicle move 12" + Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 26"
New Distance: vehicle move 6" + Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 14"-24", Average 19"

Fixed that for ya.

Happyjew wrote:

mrfantastical wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Old distance: Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 14"
New Distance: Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 8"-18", Average 13"

The 6th Ed nerf is bigger that:

Old distance: vehicle move 12" + Disembark 2" + run 6" + Assault 6" = 26"
New Distance: vehicle move 6" + Disembark 6" + Assault 2D6" = 14"-24", Average 19"

Fixed that for ya.

I'm not so sure now...

In 5th... you'd always want to be able to deliever your trukks/BW to the enemy by turn 2, so that you can use the waaagh.

In 5th... trukks/BW could only ever move 12" (13" with RPJ) and you most likly stayed in the vehicle in first turn.

In 6th... all vehicle can flatout in lieu of shooting. So, you THAT much closer at the start of turn 2, which should be close enough for boyz to disembark/waaagh/charge/krump/kumbaya!

@Thread

I forgot to add that this was sent to me by a friend, not my actual question although I was curious to hear community feedback.

Even more than the loss of Fleet though, losing Fearless is what really stinks.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. Poor Ghaz.

nkelsch wrote:Who cares? Fleet doesn't allow assaulting after running anymore. Automatic 6" run is BETTER than fleet currently.

Say what?

Fleet allows you to reroll any of the dice when charging. Automatic 6" for run is nowhere near as good as fleet.

@Dozer Blades

Hahaha, ok, thanks for that, cool guy. Now go pop your collar, stud.

Lord Yayula wrote:Oh this also... did he get fearless on the FAQ? I was playing against Ghaz this past sunday and when I reduced his numbers to 9 he rolled leadership, I told my friend that he didn't have to since now fearless was conferred to the whole unit but he told me that Ghaz wasn't fearless, checked the codex and yup he only has the mob rule.

Nope, Ghaz is not Fearless aside from when his Waaagh is in effect, at which point all non-fleeing mobs are.

Reecius wrote:

nkelsch wrote:Who cares? Fleet doesn't allow assaulting after running anymore. Automatic 6" run is BETTER than fleet currently.

Say what?

Fleet allows you to reroll any of the dice when charging. Automatic 6" for run is nowhere near as good as fleet.

Doh, you are correct. Ghaz then makes our assaulting orks WORSE than a regular ork army and slows them all up. Wow, when you lay it all out, Ghaz is no longer the 'must have' like he was.

@Insaniak

That's the point though, Ghaz's WAAGH! doesn't give Fearless anymore. That is the real bummer.

@nklesch

Yeah, you said it. Hahahaha, Ghaz's epic WAAGH! actually does NOTHING for Orks who are trying to assault! Hahaha, I can't imagine that was intentional. His super WAAGH! has no effect at all apart form making him invulnerable.

Reecius wrote:That's the point though, Ghaz's WAAGH! doesn't give Fearless anymore. That is the real bummer.

Hmm... after a check of the FAQ, you would appear to be correct. That's weird... I'm guessing that they only meant to replace the first sentence, not the entire paragraph. Guess we'll have to wait and see if that changes.

Ghaz isn't the only special character to have been nerfed you know!

Grimnarsmate wrote:Ghaz isn't the only special character to have been nerfed you know!

Haha, yes, I am aware of that. This thread though, was about Ghaz as I thought the title communicated pretty clearly....

@Insaniak

Yeah, it stinks. His WAAGGH! by RAW now does almost nothing to his army. It make shim go invul, but that's about it. Bummer.

whembly wrote:I'm not so sure now...

In 5th... you'd always want to be able to deliever your trukks/BW to the enemy by turn 2, so that you can use the waaagh.

In 5th... trukks/BW could only ever move 12" (13" with RPJ) and you most likly stayed in the vehicle in first turn.

In 6th... all vehicle can flatout in lieu of shooting. So, you THAT much closer at the start of turn 2, which should be close enough for boyz to disembark/waaagh/charge/krump/kumbaya!

Trukks have been fast in both editions, so that's 19" in 5th and 25" in 6th during your first turn.

Grimnarsmate wrote:Ghaz isn't the only special character to have been nerfed you know!

There is a difference between nerfing a special character and tossing it's very reason for existence right out the window.

I really see no reason to field Thrakka now, aside from getting "Rokk 'em boyz!" in apoc.