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Here a little start for a 2000 pts SM bikers list.


HQ - Captain - Artificier Armor - Relic Blade - SS - bike. 195
EL - 10x Assault Terminators (don't know yet if all hammernators or 4x twin LC and 6 TH/SS). 400
TR - 3x bikers - Combi-plasma - 2x Plasmaguns - MM attack bike. 180
TR - 3x bikers - Combi-plasma - 2x Plasmaguns - MM attack bike. 180
TR - 3x bikers - Combi-flamer - 2x Meltaguns - MM attack bike. 170
TR - 3x bikers - Combi-flamer - 2x Meltaguns - MM attack bike. 170
TR - 3x bikers - Combi-flamer - 2x Meltaguns - MM attack bike. 170
FA - 2x MM attack bikes. 100
FA - 2x MM attack bikes. 100
FA - 2x MM attack bikes. 100

Eldars allied detachment:
HQ - Farseer - Runes of Warding - Jetbike - Doom. 125
TR - 5x Guardians on Jetbikes - 5x TL Shuriken Catapults. 110

Tot. 2000

So,
- a solid boss as Warlord (Captain Biker), weapon switchable between TH and RS;
- a pretty simple and still very effective deathstar (that could be combat squadded if necessary);
- a decent output at 24" that compliment very well the tactic of the army (profiting at max of the full range and abusing of "combat tactics");
- no combat skills at all on troop bikers, attrition capability concentrated on Terminators and power-house Captain.
- a very usefull Farseer that will help vs psychic powers and in the same time manage to "prepare" enemy deathstar units for my Terminators.

If played well, with the new rules about TLOS, this could be a very interesting (and effective) army.

I'm just not completely sold on the Eldars detachment, curious to see if someone of you may eventually help me optimising it.

Besides, I do still see problems vs a tragic situation for bikers list. Hidden objectives in higher floors of buildings (so why combi-flamers).

My question is, apart the terrains tests, does bikes could enter in buildings and go to higher levels now? I don't have the brb with me so I ask you to check.
It's clear that this could change the whole effectiveness of the list. Even with a "disturb unit" of Terminators that could eventually splitted.


EDIT: list updated - corrections on the Eldars point values.

List is illegal. All your bikers are FA choices.

If you take a SM captain with a bike, all bike squads of FIVE models are considered troops. you only have 4 models/squad. An attack bike is still only considered one model.

After you fix that, the list should be pretty solid. If you want a death star, consider a seer council (Jetseer+Jet warlocks). They are the ultimate tarpit, and work really well if you have Khan (and a squad) be the hammer to the council's anvil.

Fast, mobile, lots of dakka. High toughness, MSU. In general a solid 6th ed army EXCEPT you lack anti air. Also your terminators are slow. How will they get to the fight? 400pts is way too much for a counter-assault unit.

As for the eldar bikes, make it a squad of 3 unless you just want ablative wounds for the farseer. GJBs don't have good range/firepower. Add a destructor warlock and then maybe.

You're damn right. What the hell I where thinking about?

Here the list modified. Ubre Command sq. instead of the 10 Terminators. Not the same durability, not at all but still a very aggressive unit that could well profit of a well placed Doom.
Regarding Khan I wouldn't take him. Combat Tactics is just so good..



HQ - Captain - Artificier Armor - PF - SS - bike. 190
.......- Command Sq. - 1x TH/SS/plasmagun - 3x LC/SS/plasmagun - Apothecary - 5x bikes. 400
TR - 4x bikers - Combi-plasma - 2x Plasmaguns - MM attack bike. 205
TR - 4x bikers - Combi-plasma - 2x Plasmaguns - MM attack bike. 205
TR - 4x bikers- 2x Plasmaguns - MM attack bike. 195
TR - 4x bikers- 2x Meltaguns - MM attack bike. 185
TR - 4x bikers- 2x Meltaguns - MM attack bike. 185
FA - 2x MM attack bikes. 100
FA - 2x MM attack bikes. 100

Eldars allied detachment:
HQ - Farseer - Runes of Warding - Jetbike - Doom. 125
TR - 5x Guardians on Jetbikes - 5x TL Shuriken Catapults. 110

---------

May you please give me an example of a well tooled Seer Council?

Seems a little points heavy. Does captain really need the buff from artifcer and storm shield when he has a 2+/4++ anyway.

Same on command squad. You're adding combat weapons, stormshields and ranged weapons. Best to decide on if they are ranged or close combat and just do one of them. For 400 points that unit has no ablative wounds and can't stand up against any other 400 pt combat unit.

Combi weapons on bike squads not really needed. maybe giving them a melta bomb though in case they run into walkers etc.

Stripping it down you can get that 3rd attack bike unit back in the list or tool up that jetbike squad with a warlock.

I agree with ruminator: get a warlock. Consider getting fortune on the farseer, as well as stones. A re-rollable 3+/4++ is amazing, and putting the seer up front you have the same durability as a regular seer council (Look out sir on 2+)

Drop the storm shield. The captain already has an iron halo (4+) and FNP (5+) after that. SM bikes, unless vs poison or s6+ weapons, are more durable than terminator armor. 120 s4 hits result in 10 dead terms, but only 9 dead bikes (8.88 to be exact). 90 s5 hits result in 10 dead terms and 10 dead bikes. Just FYI. Also bikes have a 5+ jink save, equivalent to that 5++ invul save (unless vs LRR)

My normal load out in 5th for a captain was Aritificer Armor, Storm Shield, and a Relic Blade. Yes, he already has a 4+, but that 3+ invul has been the difference between a live captain and a crispy critter more than once. With the changes to relic blades, I am actually contemplating switching to a Thunder Hammer. Points should be the same.

As for your command squad, tool them out for CC or plasma, but not both. Way too many points sunk into that unit. Also, be wary of meltaguns. They were bad in 5th where you had to be in assault range to use them. Now, you are really within assault range. I would take all plasma on my bike squads and abuse the hell out of premeasuring. Every unit would be 19" away from what they were shooting at.

Lastly, as has been mentioned, you lack anti-air. I would consider dropping one Attack bike sqadron, taking the savings from stripping down your command squad, and get a storm talon. It dovetails nicely with an all biker list.

And yes, stay with a captain. Khan was marginally usedul when you could assault from outflank. Now, not so much. Combat tactics is WAY too useful to trade in for outflank.

Otherwise, it looks like a nasty list.

Do you would add a power for the Warlock? Enbolden maybe?

I would maybe consider either BA list, jump packers would help give you a cc edge if you are looking for it, or space wolves as 2 rune priests would be sweet and could boost biker squads, maybe jaws and give an awesome psychic defense.

Command squad on bikes would fit better than assault termies, which I guess has been mentioned. t5 with FNP, with a good selection of wargear. I have no qualms about loading them up for shooting and cc, it isn't many more points to do both, though they do become a point sink, [I now have a collection of command squad bikers, still haven't decided the best selection, though now I will need to make another one as I want to use WHFB lance into a power lance for a biker as it should look cool.]

I would increase the size of the biker squads so can you combat squad. I just feel scoring units are badly needed now.
On the flipside I would take double FoC and get more attack bikes.

I think your army is too short ranged and doesn't have any antiflyer so the suggestion of 3 stormtalons may be very sensible.

Khan was never really that viable for a biker army as combat tactics is awesome. Now outflank is worse and combat tactics is better.
Though Vulkan could be good, in particular TL MM attack bikes would be very reasonable antiflyer.

Good luck. I need to play more biker armies in 6th, the strategy seems to be the same, which is broadly hit and run. However, most tactics no longer work with the new rules so I am learning.

I do like the idea of some antiair in the form of a Stormtalon but one only would be a huge easy target.
I would like to take 2 of them but this will ask to drop 2 units of MM Attack bikes. I'm not completely sold on it.
Three of them will not only ask a tons of pts but even a double FOC to take some, important, MM Attack Bike too.
This obviously means having another captain on bike (to keep the only bikers theme) or a completly different setup and some cheap troop on foot. Something like a Master of the Forge with a Conv. Beamer, 2x5 sniper Scouts and eventually a Techmarine with a second Conv. Beamer.
This will hardly stay in the 2000 pts limit. Not to mention that will ask to completly drop the Eldars detachment, hugely important for psy-shot down.


Anyway, with 2 Stormtalons, the list will look this way:

HQ - Captain - Artificier Armor - PF - Bike. 175
TR - 4x Bikers - 2x Plasmaguns - MM Attack Bike. 195
TR - 4x Bikers - 2x Plasmaguns - MM Attack Bike. 195
TR - 4x Bikers - 2x Plasmaguns - MM Attack Bike. 195
TR - 4x Bikers - 2x Plasmaguns - MM Attack Bike. 195
TR - 4x Bikers - 2x Plasmaguns - MM Attack Bike. 195
FA - 2x MM Attack Bikes. 100
FA - Stormtalon - TL Ass. Cannon - Typhoon ML. 155
FA - Stormtalon - TL Ass. Cannon - Typhoon ML. 155

Allies:
HQ - Farseer - Warding - Witnessing - Stones - Doom - Fortune - Jetbike. 185
TR - 4x Guardians on Jetbikes - Warlock on Jetbike. 133
TR - 5x Pathfinders. 120

Tot. 1998 pts.

Opinions?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another problem.

As far as I can see in the book jetbikes may enter and occupy upper floors in buildings (with tests of course). Regular bikes no.

So the list still need some footsloggin' unit that could be able to clean (or safely stay locked fir a while = contesting) a building. Exactly where the lovely adversary put their damn objectives.

Thinking about Assault Marines, Terminators, V V.. any advice point wisely?

what do you will drop in the list as it is right now?

Toban wrote:
May you please give me an example of a well tooled Seer Council?

Sure.

Bare bones
Farseer (jetbike, Fortune)
4x Warlock (jetbike, 2x Destructor, Enhance, Embolden)
330pts

Template
Farseer (jetbike, Runes of Warding, Fortune)
5x Warlock (jetbike, 2x Destructor, Enhance, Embolden)
390pts

Infantry Hunters
Farseer (jetbike, Runes of Warding, Fortune, Doom, Spirit Stones)
5x Warlock (jetbike, 2x Destructor, Enhance, Embolden)
435pts

Tank Hunters
Farseer (jetbike, Runes of Warding, Fortune, Singing Spear)
5x Warlock (jetbike, 2x Destructor, Enhance, Embolden, 5x Singing Spear)
408pts

Mix and match as you see fit. Seer councils tend to be tarpit units, hence Enhance (+1WS, +1 Init) and Embolden (Reroll leadership test). You don't need runes of witnessing, as embolden lets you reroll psychic tests. Councils win vs low-armor save units in melee (due to raw attrition. You'll probably kill 5 orks, but take 0-1 casualties, hence forcing a leadership check). But should avoid high armor (Seer council vs Terminators can last the whole game).

Mmmm

First of all thank you.

However, they are damn pricy.

The basic reasons to take eldars as allies are:
- Runes of Warding to put in danger enemy psychers;
- Doom to help vs enemy deathstars.

Everything else is enhancing the little Eldars contingent but do not effect the rest of the list (Allied of convenience).

I don't think I will invest more pts on them.

Infact, I'm playing with 200 pts trying to find a footsloggin unit from the C:SM that will help me vs hidden enemy scoring units holding objectives in buildings.

So far the list as changed again to something like this:

HQ - Captain - AA - PF - bike. 175
TR - 4x bikes - 2x plasmaguns - MM attack bike.195
TR - 4x bikes - 2x plasmaguns - MM attack bike.195
TR - 4x bikes - 2x plasmaguns - MM attack bike.195
TR - 4x bikes - 2x plasmaguns - MM attack bike.195
TR - 4x bikes - 2x plasmaguns - MM attack bike.195
FA - 2x MM attack bikes. 100
FA - Stormtalon - typhoon ML. 155
FA - Stormtalon - typhoon ML. 155

HQ - Farseer - Warding - Doom - jetbike. 125
TR - 3x Guardians on jetbikes - Warlock on jetbike with Singing Spear. 144
(Singing Spear just because of the free pts)
1799 pts for the moment.

The instinctive choice for a footslogging reliable unit that could take care of enemy infantry in buildings is, to me, a TH/SS Terminators unit.

I could deepstrike them close to the objective and then run vs the target. However, with the great diffusion of AP2 weapons now a days, I'm considering different solutions.

Sternguards in pod full of flamers/heavy flamers that could immediately throw some burning love to the target (that however will land in the very beginning of the game so not very logical),, why not an Ironclad in pod with heavy flamer or even a Legion of the Damned little unit.

Any advice will be very kindly appreciated as alwais.


EDIT: this could sound as maniacal but remember that without anything apart the Eldars that can enter in buildings, if the adversary place his home objective on the roof of a multifloor terrain, the best we can hope is to tie in one game over 6 and give a very nice advantage to the adversary on 4/6 games.