Terminally ill patients who fear being placed on 'routine' death pathway issued with opt-out cards b

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**Frazzled**

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2178116/Terminally-ill-patients-fear-placed-routine-death-pathway-issued-opt-cards-charity.html

Terminally ill patients who fear being placed on 'routine' death pathway issued with opt-out cards by charity
•Anti-euthanasia charity distributes cards to patients telling doctors not to place them on controversial 'care pathway'

By Claire Bates
PUBLISHED: 09:13 GMT, 24 July 2012 | UPDATED: 09:17 GMT, 24 July 2012
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Terminally ill patients have been issued with special cards telling doctors not to place them on a 'care pathway' that would hasten the end of their lives.

It comes after doctors warned that hospitals may be routinely withholding food and drink from very ill patients so they die quicker to cut costs and save on bed spaces.
In response the anti-euthanasia charity Alert is distributing cards to patients to prevent this happening. The cards simply read: 'Please do not give me the Liverpool Care Pathway treatment without my informed consent or that of a relative.'

Warning: Hospitals may be withholding food and drink from elderly patients so they die quicker to cut costs and save on bed spaces (file picture)
The Liverpool Care Pathway, which got its name as it was developed at the Royal Liverpool Hospital in the 1990s, withholds fluids and drugs in a patient's final days and is used with 29 per cent of hospital patients at the end of their lives.
The practice is backed by the Department of Health.
However, in a recent letter to the Daily Telegraph, six doctors who specialise in elderly care warned hospitals across the UK could be using the controversial practice as routine to ease the pressure on resources.
They added that in the elderly, natural death was more often free of pain and distress.
The group warned that not all doctors were acquiring the correct consent from patients and are failing to ask about what they wanted while they were still able to decide.

Claims: Experts say in the elderly natural death is more often pain free (file picture)

The doctors say that this has led to an increase in patients carrying a card stating that they do not want this 'pathway' treatment in the last days of their lives.
One of the letter's signatories, Dr Gillian Craig, a retired geriatrician and former vice-chairman of the Medical Ethics Alliance, told the newspaper: 'If you are cynical about it, as I am, you can see it as a cost-cutting measure, if you don't want your beds to be filled with old people.'
The new opt-out cards are designed to work like a 'living will' to give the patient more say over their future treatment before they become too ill to communicate their wishes.

Elspeth Chowharay-Best, the honorary secretary of Alert, told the paper that the cards were being produced to answer 'an urgent need'.
A Department of Health spokesman said: 'People coming to the end of their lives should have a right to high quality, compassionate and dignified care.
'The Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) is not about saving money. It is an established and respected tool that is recommended by NICE (National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence) and has overwhelming support from clinicians at home and abroad.
'The decision to use the pathway should involve patients and family members, and a patient's condition should be closely monitored.
'If, as sometimes happens, a patient improves, they are taken off the LCP and given whatever treatments best suit their new needs.
'To ensure the LCP is used properly, it is important that staff receive the appropriate training and support.'

**Melissia**

While it might seem like a good cause, the way they went about it makes it seem like political scaremongering.

**Steve steveson**

I'm shocked! For something like this I would have expected a title like "DEATH DOC'S TOLD TO STOP!" by the Daily Fail.

Unfortunately they seem to be trying to make a political point. Too often Doctors are to quick to resuscitate and reading what the Doctors have written they have no accusations this this is happening, only vague hunches based on a cynical distrust of the NHS (Probably due to recent changes in the way funding is managed).

The main point of LCP is to ensure that patients in the last few days or hours of life receive appropriate treatment for pain, discomfit etc. without the need to constantly refer to more senior staff for changes to there care, which at this point may ocoure on a very regular basis. The question is, if you are dieing of cancer do you want to spend an hour in pain whilst the nurse tries to get your consultant to sign off morphine at 2am on a Sunday night?

**Testify**

Right. It's like a charity issueing kids with cards saying "please do not rape me", because obviously there's peadophiles everywhere.

Please do not post stories from the Daily Mail on dakka.

**mattyrm**

Its an anti-euthanasia charity.

So basically, a bunch of toady sneaky fething Jesus freaks who will use any and all tactics to get their own agenda forced onto everyone else.

They say only two types of people are opposed to euthanasia, those involved with palliative care, or the Religious zealot.

And I have never met a single one involved with palliative care who cant see both sides of the issue, they are far less dogmatic than my nemesis, the peddlers of the desert Gods fables.

It was this type of thing that initially got me interested in atheism, when I watched a family member rot with cancer and I learned that Religious bigots rock up at hospitals and pester strangers. They disgust me utterly.

I hope some fether turns up with a card for my grandmother in intensive care when her time comes, they will be begging for an "early release from suffering" after I throw them out of the fething window.

**Jihadin**

Wow....again...wow.....Matty before you chuck them out the window...give me ten min to draw the crowd and charge $5 for "Can a Man Fly if Motivated by God"....50/50...wait....towards the care of your mum..all of it....I'm not motivated by God

**Squigsquasher**

Anti euthanasia charity?

Oh good.

Should go well for all those people whose lives are unbearably painful and have nothing to live for, who won't be able to be finally put to rest because of these [Mod edit: people].

Now I'm angry.

**Jihadin**

$6.50

**mattyrm**

Seriously though, where do people get off telling you how you are allowed to die?

The decision rests with only one person, you.

Possibly the wife and kids have a say as well if you have family, but thats fething it.

The fact that the necky bastards even try to take charge of you in death really really enrages me.

If I was terminally ill I wouldn't have anything left to lose anyway, so I would probably kill the fethers.

It would make some funny headlines anyway "Terminally ill man kills three with own IV during intensive care carnage"

**cpt_fishcakes**

What a rubbish news article. But then it is the Daily Mail Quoting some religious nutters

My Dad is currently going through end of life care for terminal cancer. Its in most of his organs, his bones and bone marrow. He was given weeks to live and thanks to the amazing treatment he has received on the NHS he is still here six months later and going strong. The treatment to try and control the cancer, pain management and help with his increasing disability has been outstanding.

It really has given me a new perspective on just how much crud is written about the NHS and this is just another steaming pile of sensationalist effluence.

**streamdragon**

mattyrm wrote:
They say only two types of people are opposed to euthanasia, those involved with palliative care, or the Religious zealot.

I would add a third group: those who have never watched a loved one suffer a terminal disease.

I agree that euthanasia should not be used without consent of the terminal patient; to do otherwise is murder.

But to deny someone who does desire it an end to their suffering is tantamount to torture. Sadly thats not something that can be truly understood until one has seen it first hand.

**Frazzled**

cpt_fishcakes wrote:What a rubbish news article. But then it is the Daily Mail Quoting some religious nutters

My Dad is currently going through end of life care for terminal cancer. Its in most of his organs, his bones and bone marrow. He was given weeks to live and thanks to the amazing treatment he has received on the NHS he is still here six months later and going strong. The treatment to try and control the cancer, pain management and help with his increasing disability has been outstanding.

It really has given me a new perspective on just how much crud is written about the NHS and this is just another steaming pile of sensationalist effluence.

Can you say more about what they do? This is a big deal.

**cpt_fishcakes**

My Dad has been receiving chemo and radiotherapy, which has helped reduce the tumors in his organs. The bone cancers a lost cause it was the first symptom spotted when he hurt his back and went for treatment. But the pain medication has helped him regain and more importantly maintain some degree of independence. His body no longer produces enough blood so he has been having weekly transfusions, without this he would die. Some times he can go 2 weeks without needing one, which is quite something.

I think a big factor working in his favor is having maintained as positive attitude as you could hope for from somebody going through this. He also received a £6500 disability grant which was used to make the house suitable for his disabilities. That makes a big difference being able to spend his last days at home rather than in a Hospital ward.

**Easy E**

I'm sorry to hear that Cpt. I hope everything goes well.

Also, the right just loves to yell, "Death Panel" whenever they can.

**Melissia**

Kudos for your dad for having a good attitude throughout that.

**Frazzled**

Melissia wrote:Kudos for your dad for having a good attitude throughout that.

Agreed. Be strong.

**cpt_fishcakes**

cheers

Going to take him to see Dark Knight Rises at the weekend, something I couldn't have imagined doing just a few months ago

**Frazzled**

Do what you can now, so you regret nothing later.

**Inquisitor Ehrenstein**

Christians didn't have a problem with killing people with mental retardation, but now they don't want to kill suffering terminally ill people?

http://alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/nazigallery/photogallery.html

**Frazzled**

Thats statement's so wrong it makes Bob from Accounting nervous.

**streamdragon**

*tons of nazi pics*

*random color shot of Bill Clinton *

Excellent link there. :rolleyes:

**Inquisitor Ehrenstein**

I have no idea why that one picture was in there.

I made a stupid comment. I realize it.

**Orlanth**

mattyrm wrote:Seriously though, where do people get off telling you how you are allowed to die?

The decision rests with only one person, you.

If you stop the rabid frothing for a moment you might notice that what the charity wants to do is make sure that right is respected.

The problem, they feel, is the the medical profession might want to wind down care so that the patient dies in a more timely fashion. Many patients who wish to continue living may not be able to articulate this easily and some feel that the decisions to place patients on 'care paths' leading to a controlled mortality is for reasons of cost rather than optimum care.

**cpt_fishcakes**

As I have unfortunately discovered, the patient is not kept in the dark about there condition. The patient comes first they are told everything before the family are. I can only go on my first hand experience but the NHS do everything they can to keep you alive, there doctors after all that’s what there supposed to do.

I live in one of the most deprived cash strapped parts of Britain, and the local council lost all its money when the Icelandic banks went under. And my Dad has received no expense spared world class care to keep him living as long as possible. If the NHS was trying to save money by letting terminal cases die quickly he wouldn’t be here.

Not trying to pull some guilt trip thing here to win the internet. Just this is a subject I am kind of living through at the moment.

There’s reality and perception of reality, unfortunately too many people go with the latter.

**dogma**

Orlanth wrote:Many patients who wish to continue living may not be able to articulate this easily...

And many patients who don't wish to continue living find it difficult to articulate this easily.

**Monster Rain**

Did I miss something?

It seems like this is just a way for people who want to not be given that particular "treatment" to opt out. I don't see what the big deal is.

**d-usa**

Monster Rain wrote:Did I miss something?

It seems like this is just a way for people who want to not be given that particular "treatment" to opt out. I don't see what the big deal is.

I think that the "big deal" is that it appears to imply that the government will let you starve to death if you are sick in order to save money unless you have the special opt-out cards.

Just your basic scaremongering wrapped in a blanked of "please think of the terminally-ill children!".

**sebster**

Hospitals let terminally ill people die all the time, everywhere in the world. Well, in the countries without euthenasia laws in place, that is. Fact is modern science can keep a person alive, but brain dead and without any chance of recovery for a really long time.

Doing so is expensive and chews up valuable resources that could be used to help someone get better. Unfortunately, for a whole lot of reasons of which mattyrm's hated religious zealots are a major one but not the only one, most places don't grant people the right die. So instead we have doctors quietly making that decision on a daily basis.

People here about this and most realise the only sensible solution is to start to build right to die legislation that puts the choice in the hands of the sick individual, or if incapacitated then with his loved ones... and yet that legislation never reaches parliament.

**Kilkrazy**

The cases involved here are people in the terminal stages of cancer, who are on a high morphine dose for pain, which keeps them pretty comatose.

In such a condition they cannot eat normally, and must be given intravenous feeding.

This kind of feeding cannot sustain life indefinitely in cases of people suffering terminal cancer, which always causes wasting.

The choice therefore is between surviving a short while longer in a coma, or not, depending on the intravenous feeding.

**Orlanth**

dogma wrote:
Orlanth wrote:Many patients who wish to continue living may not be able to articulate this easily...

And many patients who don't wish to continue living find it difficult to articulate this easily.

Your point is?

Using the cards to say that they don't want the care service to phase down their care is OPTIONAL. If you don't want to continue with life and the medical professionals are phasing down your care, just carry on.