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There is a tournament this upcoming saturday. The first one I will ever have played in. I have a good bit of games under my belt and mostly know what I am doing. But I have only played for fun. This will be the first harder competitive type of game I will be playing.

The tournament will run with all the rule from 6th edition. You can bring 2 lists for your army. When you are issued an opponent you can view his two lists and then use that info to pick which of your lists you will use. You wont know which of his 2 lists he picks nor will he know what you pick.

After a play test of my prior 2 lists I posted before, I have devised 2 similar but tactically different lists with the Models I own. I would like feedback or tactics on the best ways t play these lists. Im sure you brilliant Dakka'ers(??) can come up with better stuff than I can. At worst, It would be nice to be wished some luck for the tournament :-).

Seer council List

***EDITED***

HQ
Farseer
Eldar Jetbike
Runes of Witnessing
Runes of Warding
Fortune Psychic Power
143 pts

6 Warlock
6 Eldar Jetbike
4 Destructor Psychic Power
1 Embolden Psychic Power
1 Enchance Psychic Power
2 Singing Spear
336 pts

Autarch
Eldar Jetbike
Mandiblasters
Laser Lance (Jetbike only)
Fusion Gun
140 pts

Elites
Fire Dragon Exarch
Pike
5 Fire Dragons
116

Wave serpent
TL S.Cannon
100 pts

Troops
3 Jetbike Guardians
Shuriken Cannon
76 pts

3 Jetbike Guardians
Shuriken Cannon
76 pts

5 Rangers
95 pts

Heavy
Fire Prism
115 pts

Fire Prism
115 pts

3 War Walkers
5 Scatter Lasers
1 EML
185 pts

TOTAL: 1497

******************************************

Balanced foot list

***EDITED***

HQ
Eldrad
210 pts

Avatar
155 pts

Elites
5 Wraithguard
175 pts

Warlock
Conceal Psychic Power
Upgrade to Spiritseer
46 pts

Troops
7 Rangers
133 pts

6 Rangers
114 pts

6 Guardian Jet Bikes
2 Shu Cannons
Jetbike Warlock
Embolden
Singing Spear
205 pts

Heavy
Wraithlord
Elder Missile Launcher
Bright Lance
155 pts

3 War Walkers
6 Scatter Laser
180 pts

Fire Prism
S.Cannon
125 pts

TOTAL: 1498 pts

I kind of like the second list better just because I feel its more fun to play. But I do love me my seer council. So idk which is better of a primary list? Which list would work better against certain opponents?

Thanks again guys!

Two good lists. I like the format of the tournament and your response to it by bringing two completely different lists.

My gun line vanilla marines would be more worried about your fast list, my fast shooty Nids would be more worried about the fast list as well, and my mixed mech Eldar would be more worried about your foot list, if that helps.

Good luck!

first list:
1: drop runes of warding. With embolden you get to re-roll a leadership test, meaning you can re-roll psychic powers.
2: spears. Wychblades got nerfed hard vs vehicles. Singing spears did not. At least the farseer should have a spear to take advantage of bs5.
3: you lack survivable troops. 1 turn of concentrating on troops could wipe them all off the map.
4: vypers are still inferior to war walkers. War walkers can outflank, are cheaper, arent open topped, and can assault (trust me, this is a huge plus). Drop the vypers
5: what is your farseer dooming? almost everything here would be wounding on 2+ vs MEQ. Maybe against nid MCs? but the council still wounds on 2s even then.

With all the points you save from dropping the vypers and some upgrades on the farseer you could either grab some DE allies or more troops. The first list just seems to be too bipolar. You have only 1 melee unit and its racing far ahead of the army. If you want to go seer council, you need 2 seer councils both running together to overwhelm the opponents target priority. Otherwise the opponent can chose to kill your ranged units and kill you in melee or kill your melee units and kill you at range.


2nd list:
1: Wraithguard still arent worth it. With a 12" range, fire dragons do everything these guys do better. For 5 wraithguard you can get a squad of 10 fire dragons and bump up the other squad of dragons. 20 fire dragons is much harder to kill than 5 wraithguard.
2: how are you capturing objectives on the other side of the board? You have no troops that can move around. Drop one ranger squad for a GJB squad with cannon.
3: drop the falcon. Still not worth it in 6th. 3 BS3 shots for 145 points is a terrible deal. Also makes opponent target priority easy since you will have a unit riding inside, so shooting the falcon serves double purpose.
4: Walking lists need wraithlords. They provide cover saves and anchor the line. Also, Missiles are just as good as brightlances for most purposes. Also have the option of a pinning shot, which is nice. Make sure you use 2x flamers also.
5: war walkers should be 2x scatter lasers. Yes, you lack heavy-AT, but scatter lasers knock apart AV12 easily with the HP system. 24 guided shots is 18 hits, 3 glances, killing any AV12 vehicle.
6: harlequins. They got nearly unkillable at range thanks to the FAQ and provide cover saves for the rest of your army.

Walking eldar is about cost efficiency. You can throw out a LOT of very strong units for the point cost which is what you need to take advantage of. Transports simply dilute your list and make it easier for your opponent to target 1 unit. The point is to make your opponent's anti-tank fire far less effective as it is shooting T6 or T8 models that have good saves and possible re-rolls. I

zephoid wrote:first list:
1: Wraithguard still arent worth it. With a 12" range, fire dragons do everything these guys do better. For 5 wraithguard you can get a squad of 10 fire dragons and bump up the other squad of dragons. 20 fire dragons is much harder to kill than 5 wraithguard.

Walking eldar is about cost efficiency. You can throw out a LOT of very strong units for the point cost which is what you need to take advantage of. Transports simply dilute your list and make it easier for your opponent to target 1 unit. The point is to make your opponent's anti-tank fire far less effective as it is shooting T6 or T8 models that have good saves and possible re-rolls. I

I agree with the 2nd point but not your first. A walking list relies on wraithguard to be the walking cover save...sure they have a 12 inch range but when they get in range things just die. Harliquins are still be best bunker for Eldrad but you can now target them which makes them very fragile, especially if your opponent starts trying to snipe you with blasts.

The problem with the foot list..and both lists really is the lack of troops. Rangers/Pathfinders are good but you want 10 of them in one squad so they can survive. Take the points from the 10 fire dragons and the falcon and add bump up the troops total...try to get 10 wraithguard in the list.

Re-read the new FAQ with the rulebook in front of you. They do not replace the 2d6x2 spotting distance. So therefore they are 2d6 spotting range with a 4+ cover save (rerollable?) that goes to 2+ if they have anything in between them and the firer. There are only 3 units in the game that the D cannon actually works better than a melta gun: Wraithlord, talos/chronos, and c'tan shards. Other than that, meltas ID more often, wound on 2+ and ignore armor saves, are about equal on hurting vehicles, but melta have +2 on the damage table.

zephoid wrote: There are only 3 units in the game that the D cannon actually works better than a melta gun: Wraithlord, talos/chronos, and c'tan shards. Other than that, meltas ID more often, wound on 2+ and ignore armor saves, are about equal on hurting vehicles, but melta have +2 on the damage table.

While true they have no way to become troops...if your running a foot list your army is only T3 with a 4+ save...your troops will die period, there is no way around it until Eldar get a new book with cheaper troops choices. Having 10 T6 wraithguard, with a warlock with conceal, that as a troops choice with a 3+ save is a good points investment.

zephoid wrote:first list:
1: drop runes of warding. With embolden you get to re-roll a leadership test, meaning you can re-roll psychic powers.
2: spears. Wychblades got nerfed hard vs vehicles. Singing spears did not. At least the farseer should have a spear to take advantage of bs5.
3: you lack survivable troops. 1 turn of concentrating on troops could wipe them all off the map.
4: vypers are still inferior to war walkers. War walkers can outflank, are cheaper, arent open topped, and can assault (trust me, this is a huge plus). Drop the vypers
5: what is your farseer dooming? almost everything here would be wounding on 2+ vs MEQ. Maybe against nid MCs? but the council still wounds on 2s even then.

With all the points you save from dropping the vypers and some upgrades on the farseer you could either grab some DE allies or more troops. The first list just seems to be too bipolar. You have only 1 melee unit and its racing far ahead of the army. If you want to go seer council, you need 2 seer councils both running together to overwhelm the opponents target priority. Otherwise the opponent can chose to kill your ranged units and kill you in melee or kill your melee units and kill you at range.


2nd list:
1: Wraithguard still arent worth it. With a 12" range, fire dragons do everything these guys do better. For 5 wraithguard you can get a squad of 10 fire dragons and bump up the other squad of dragons. 20 fire dragons is much harder to kill than 5 wraithguard.
2: how are you capturing objectives on the other side of the board? You have no troops that can move around. Drop one ranger squad for a GJB squad with cannon.
3: drop the falcon. Still not worth it in 6th. 3 BS3 shots for 145 points is a terrible deal. Also makes opponent target priority easy since you will have a unit riding inside, so shooting the falcon serves double purpose.
4: Walking lists need wraithlords. They provide cover saves and anchor the line. Also, Missiles are just as good as brightlances for most purposes. Also have the option of a pinning shot, which is nice. Make sure you use 2x flamers also.
5: war walkers should be 2x scatter lasers. Yes, you lack heavy-AT, but scatter lasers knock apart AV12 easily with the HP system. 24 guided shots is 18 hits, 3 glances, killing any AV12 vehicle.
6: harlequins. They got nearly unkillable at range thanks to the FAQ and provide cover saves for the rest of your army.

Walking eldar is about cost efficiency. You can throw out a LOT of very strong units for the point cost which is what you need to take advantage of. Transports simply dilute your list and make it easier for your opponent to target 1 unit. The point is to make your opponent's anti-tank fire far less effective as it is shooting T6 or T8 models that have good saves and possible re-rolls. I

1st list:
1. Dropping runes of WARDING is a terrible idea in my opinion. Warding throws up table wide psychic defense. Not getting rid of that. If you meant runes of witnessing, then yea maybe that is an idea. But the single turn my council does not get fortuned, tey are dead. So I take every precaution that they survive.
2. More spears would be nice. Thats a good idea. I tried to balance it out with some spears and some witchblades. As long as im not trying to asault down AV13 or AV14 A mixture should do fine. The extra attacks on the charge with witchblades help too. But A spear on the Farseer would be a good call with his BS. I think I took that one off just to make it under the points. Ill try to fit it back on.
3. I usually take a troop for every 500 pts. I know this weakness but I keep the bikes in reserve for as long as the dice allow me to. They are very fast and can get cover easily I try to keep the out of range. If the opponent focus's all his shots on my bikes or turns all his stuff to face them, then the rest of my units are free to blast away at them. And in 2/6 games I get even more scoring units from fast attack or heavy support. Rangers are survivable from tons of shooting if they are in ruins and/or go to ground. Maybe If I free up the points I will take a group of 10 rangers instead of 5.
4.Vypers are better this Edition. This list is built more on speed. So Vypers fit. I took all the walkers I own as well. So they just add to my S6 spam.
5. This is a great point. I didnt really think about that. Doom isnt really worth it here. There is like 45 points I can free up. Good Find

I don't own enough models for a second seer council. So running 2 isnt happening. Running 2 would also kill SO MANY points. My brother has some DE models I could take. Idk If duke sliscus, 9 kabolites, in a raider with splinter wracks would be good?

2nd list:
1. I own 6 fire dragon models. So this isnt possible. I also woul dnot want to slog 20 FD's across the board. The would get wrecked by any kind of template. I am working on obtaining more Wraithguard as well. I hope to run 10 eventually as a troop. But I own 5 right now. They will have a 3+ 5++ re-rollable save. And with a group T6, thats going to take a lot of dedicated firepower. Are they going to direct their AP2/AP3 firepower towards WG, WL, Avatar, Tank? An army only has so much Heavy shots. If I see a list someone is running with Stupid amounts of stuff that kills big things, then I take my other list.
2. I Will try to capture everything on my side while contesting everything on their side. But that isnt a bad point. Maybe a swap for one troop unit would do good. Nice find.
3. I am trying to give the Falcon a chance but I know what your saying. I'd still be paying those points for a wave serpent for my dragons so added firepower is nice. I dont know what I would do instead If I didnt take the falcon. I was just counting of the enemy wanting to shoot alot of my other stuff instead.
4. If I had more Lords they would be in the list. That is my next priority purchase. He is definitely taking flamers :-)
5. I agree with what you are saying here. I had them as 6 lasers but I ended up going back and forth over splitting them. I kind of wanted to try it just to see how it worked. But i suppose a tournament isnt the place for testing. I had the points so i upgraded. That was really the only reason.
6. I would love to swap out for some of them. I just dont own any. If I had them, they would be in this list.

This list isnt quite where I wanted it to be model wise. I am still building up my collection. So I work with what I have available.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*******************

I edited both lists to try and take some of your ideas into consideration the best I could with the units I have.

Yes, i meant runes of witnessing. With embolden you dont need witnessing because you can re-roll the psychic test.

Easiest way to make harlequins is to get the 3rd edition striking scorps and paint them up as harlequins. They are posed like harlequins and with a bit of painting they look pretty darn good.

Taking DE allies is mostly for an archon with shadowfield that you throw in with a unit to make it near unkillable with fortune. Usually the troops are wytches in a raider or venom with haywire grenades. Using DE allies for more shooting really isnt necessary since eldar do anti-inf shooting better with war walkers. DE do have the razorwing though, which is an absolute beast.

20 walking dragons is best against mid ranged shooting/assault (GK, Crons, BA) whereas councils are best vs heavy shooting ranged list (SW, IG, DE, Tau). Thats what i was trying to get at. 5 WG really arent as survivable as you would think since if even one dies he can start focus firing the unit behind them with AP4-. With a unit of 10 you have 400 points in a unit that dies in assault to anything with a fist or S6+. Even at range the main AT weapons are still wounding on 2+ and that 5+ cover is hard to depend on when that many points are going into each unit. I prefer running enhance on a 10 man unit and using harlequins for cover since at least with WS5 I5 S5 they are decent in melee.

I figured you mean witnessing. Maybe I'll look int those scorpion models. It just stinks cuz the newest models of harleys are really cool. Love the shadowseer. I suppose a blob of 20 fearless fire dragons under the avatar isnt bad.... and then hide them behind some lords or something. I just feel like any large blast AP4 attack would decimate them.

The 5+ cover save when fortuned is better then a 4+ save with no re-rolls. I think a 5+ fortuned is something like a 55.55% chance to save. And that is if they punch the toughness and the armour. Without conceal, all it takes is one large S8 AP3 blast to lay a hurt down. Conceal is an auto take in my book. If a fist comes near my units I hope to get some shots off at them before they make it there. Assaulting them will be difficult with the Avatar standing bye or even running in front of them. He will more then bail them out of any combat or take just about anyhting on single handedly. If need be the wraithlord can sweep into a combat only if I know he can end it. 3 S10 AP2 hits can hurt. But not agaisnt a bunch of units.

I can see what you are saying. But I only have the models I have. I would take 10 guard if i could. But I cant. 20 fire warriors sounds interesting, but I have NEVER heard of anyone else mention it. Which makes me wonder. Idk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited the list one more time. Had to take out the vypers.

Razgriz22 wrote:I figured you mean witnessing. Maybe I'll look int those scorpion models. It just stinks cuz the newest models of harleys are really cool. Love the shadowseer. I suppose a blob of 20 fearless fire dragons under the avatar isnt bad.... and then hide them behind some lords or something.

Well keep in mind you don't have to use our suggestions especially if models are an issue. Keep in mind the avatar makes everything around it fearless not just one unit. In my foot list every single model in the army stays close to the avatar and only breaks apart when needed.

I do Apreciate the advice and help. Don't think I do not. :-). If I had access to any models I wished, these lists would definetly be a little more different. And yes avatar fearless is great. He also auto regroups Anythig that is running away that goes through his bubble. So he can save a fleeing group of guardian jetbikes.

Lol..... So in the tournament I lost all 3 games. It was a very competitive meta. Most marine oriented. One loss was due to a Marine artillery that shot four S6 blasts really far. Pretty much wiped half my non fortuned seer council first turn. The gun was deployed onto the Third level of a Ruins So it could see everything. I managed to (without my seer council) only lose 7-9 VP's.

Second game I was frustrated with my council (even though it was my fault and not theirs that they died) and took my second list. It was a dumb list choice to take against tau and marines. I could get any troops to their objective and he couldnt get any to mine. I lost because he got first blood and I didnt get any extra VP's. I lost 3-4.

Third game I went back to the council, had first turn, and turbo'd it into range. They took boatloads of fire and laid out some damage but got crippled do to concentrated mass fire and all my other units just couldnt roll to hit very well. I lost due to flimsy and small troop choices.

I think overall I learned a lot. I have LOTS of changes to make. They are going to have a tournament every month. I want to make new lists for it.

SHOULD I create a new thread with new lists if they are different or just stick to this thread??

I'd recommend a new thread.

DarknessEternal wrote:I'd recommend a new thread.

Alright thanks. I didn't know if it was frowned upon to post too many list threads. Thanks!