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Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One



Birmingham

Hi Dakka!

So pretty much the title - ghost ark or doomsday ark?? (apologies if this has done to death - I just got a battleforce so wondering how to build it up )

Now on the one hand the Doomsday Ark will come in very handy against terminators and marines that i face a lot, and pretty much anything else with how strong the weapon is... plus the huge range.

The problem that its gun is diminished if it moves shouldn't be too much of an issue surely? Stick it in the corner, it can still pivot can't it as that doesn't count as moving? And basically sit there and smash stuff (especially with new template rules)

But the Ghost Ark has great synergy with warriors, a gun boat platform, and the regen of warriors makes me think I should be running a big block of 15 warriors infront of the Ark?

Which is the best way to go in dakka members experience?

I know it can be done to play style etc so I should give a disclaimer that personally i am used to playing guard, so I love big guns - but if the ghost ark is a must compared to the doomsday ark then i could change my mind?

Really just looking for people's preferences and why and some experiences with it?

I'm not great at modelling so don't think I could use magnets to have both

Disclaimer - for some context incase anyway says "it depends on your list" ... so far I have 12 warriors, 3 scarabs, 3 wraiths, 5 lychguard, doomscythe, annihilation barge, ccb, 5 deathmarks, stalker, monolith, 4 destroyers, some IC's and lord models... so as you can probably tell my problem so far has been "i want one of them, and one of them, and one of them" syndrome (but all that nonesense is for the army lists forum - just some background info to show what the ark would be going with if anyone wanted to know).

Thanks!!

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




UK

Doomsday Ark is a lot better this edition with large blasts hitting the whole size (as well as AP1)
and it's a fine choice to use (even on it's own rather than spamming lots of them)

But Ghost Arks are fantastic this edition. 4 hull points, jink, no glance damage, rapid fire improvement (+passengers), gauss weapons.

I would recommend a Ghost Ark only if you're planning on buying more of them.

But this is just a personal note from me, those models are frigging annoying to put together, let alone paint (unless your necrons scheme is just two sprays)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/25 19:43:10


 
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot




TN

The answer is simple, construct it so it is possible to switch between one and the other.

That is what I have done with my three.

It is hilarious when one game I have three ghost arks filled with warriors accompanying three warrior blobs = undying blob of skeletal warriors.
and then next game I switch it up and bring three Doomsday arks and nothing is safe from the pieplates of DOOOOM!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But the army choice seriously depends on what else you have.

Ghost arks give better mobility to warriors. but if you have night scythes to transport troops somewhere else, or maybe a veil of darkness to get them across the board to an objective, then you won't need the ghost ark.

Doomsday ark is great at making holes in an army, but say you plan on facing lots and lots of fliers, well Doomsday cannon won't do diddly-squat because blasts and templates can't hit fliers. You will want something else for the job.
Or say you are playing a really small pts game. A DDArk will take a big hunk of your pts. Perhaps in this case an Annihilation barge is a better choice for your heavy support and you can use that ark as a really tough transport.

Both have their pros and cons. It is good to be flexible and make the decision based off of what else is in your list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 20:28:41


- Moron
1k sons: in progress
Necrons: 3000
deathwing: 8000
ravenwing: 2000
3rd co: 2000
tyranids: 2500
a ton of extra boyz and stuff up for trading/selling
Lizardmen: 2500 
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One



Birmingham

Thanks both for the replies.

I would love to be able to use it as both but I'm afraid my modeling skills aren't up to it lol!

In terms of its uses, at the moment I'm only just building up my warrior squads... I'm thinking of using 3 units of 8 and then a squad or 2 of immortals with either a scythe or veil.

I think overall the ghost ark may be the best option, but the appeal of completely tearing up my friends deathwing or GK termies with it is very very interesting!

I guess though that's counting on no scatter, and keeping it safe, otherwise its pretty much 175pts wasted.

The lack of other ap2/1 is what draws me to it - destructeks, heavy d's, stalker... If playing a termie heavy list which my main friend I play against does, the points add up quickly
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






adam304 wrote:Thanks both for the replies.

I would love to be able to use it as both but I'm afraid my modeling skills aren't up to it lol!

In terms of its uses, at the moment I'm only just building up my warrior squads... I'm thinking of using 3 units of 8 and then a squad or 2 of immortals with either a scythe or veil.

I think overall the ghost ark may be the best option, but the appeal of completely tearing up my friends deathwing or GK termies with it is very very interesting!

I guess though that's counting on no scatter, and keeping it safe, otherwise its pretty much 175pts wasted.

The lack of other ap2/1 is what draws me to it - destructeks, heavy d's, stalker... If playing a termie heavy list which my main friend I play against does, the points add up quickly


It still has a 1/3 chance of not scattering thanks to it's BS. And not to mention it usually takes at least 3 inches above that before it's probably not hitting anything, so now we're up to a 50/50. I think those are good odds, personally.

Not hard to keep it safe with it's 72" range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blackgaze wrote:Doomsday Ark is a lot better this edition with large blasts hitting the whole size (as well as AP1)
and it's a fine choice to use (even on it's own rather than spamming lots of them)

But Ghost Arks are fantastic this edition. 4 hull points, jink, no glance damage, rapid fire improvement (+passengers), gauss weapons.

I would recommend a Ghost Ark only if you're planning on buying more of them.

But this is just a personal note from me, those models are frigging annoying to put together, let alone paint (unless your necrons scheme is just two sprays)


So...doomsday ark has jink as well (though you probably won't be moving much with it, so take that as you will), I think the same number of hull points, rapid fire didn't matter last or this edition as all vehicles have relentless anyway, doomsday ark also has the gauss weapons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/25 22:00:37


 
   
Made in gb
Freaky Flayed One



Birmingham

@Kevin I take it you're in the doomsday camp then lol! How has it worked for you (guessing you have experience with it)?
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






adam304 wrote:@Kevin I take it you're in the doomsday camp then lol! How has it worked for you (guessing you have experience with it)?


Honestly, I haven't used a ghost ark because I don't like the "take a ton of warriors" tactic. I've only used it a handful of times and none in 6th so far so I can't speak on that, but the experience I have with it is pretty much just as you'd expect. It's good, not great, don't count on it to take out high armor vehicles (though it can excel at it if you get a good armor pen roll), but man does it take a nice chunk out of infantry.

My opinion, it's really easy to keep it safe against most stuff, obviously drop pod armies are going to be a problem (but they always are, there's no real getting around that save for interceptor guns now) and the biggest limiting factor is LOS blocking. It's very easy to hide from it at long range. But it does still suffer from the same thing every high strength gun suffers from....cover saves. All in all, I like them a bit but I'm not in love with them. I do like the intimidation value they bring to the board though, that alone lets me create my avenues for my enemy to go through. Much easier to set up traps with my foot units.

Honestly I think it's been a better deterrent than it has a killing machine. Though it's done it's fair share.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/25 22:14:20


 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el





United States

Really, I think both variants are fine in-game, with the Ghost Ark supporting Warrior-spam lists and the Doomsday Ark supporting more gunline-type lists. However, I would seriously recommend painting everything separately then assembling the model, as it is a chore to paint after it is assembled.
   
Made in us
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot




TN

adam304 wrote:Thanks both for the replies.

I would love to be able to use it as both but I'm afraid my modeling skills aren't up to it lol!

In terms of its uses, at the moment I'm only just building up my warrior squads... I'm thinking of using 3 units of 8 and then a squad or 2 of immortals with either a scythe or veil.

I think overall the ghost ark may be the best option, but the appeal of completely tearing up my friends deathwing or GK termies with it is very very interesting!

I guess though that's counting on no scatter, and keeping it safe, otherwise its pretty much 175pts wasted.

The lack of other ap2/1 is what draws me to it - destructeks, heavy d's, stalker... If playing a termie heavy list which my main friend I play against does, the points add up quickly


Modeling it to be able to switch back and forth is not hard to do. I've done it three times before, so I know how to do it, and it will only take a few magnets.

Also, when the tables are turned and I play my Deathwing, I am very much afraid of the Doomsday ark, and instakill pallindins? yes please!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 05:07:01


- Moron
1k sons: in progress
Necrons: 3000
deathwing: 8000
ravenwing: 2000
3rd co: 2000
tyranids: 2500
a ton of extra boyz and stuff up for trading/selling
Lizardmen: 2500 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

But this is just a personal note from me, those models are frigging annoying to put together, let alone paint (unless your necrons scheme is just two sprays)

In fact, I bought the battle box mainly for the infantry models. Nevertheless I'm looking forward to putting the Ghost Ark together. Shrugh.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in us
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TN

Agreed. Putting that thing together and painting them were some of the most exhausting models I have done.
But my, when they are finished, they look great!

I think the ark is payback for how easy necrons used to be to put together and paint. Block of warriors: spray silver, black ink, done.

- Moron
1k sons: in progress
Necrons: 3000
deathwing: 8000
ravenwing: 2000
3rd co: 2000
tyranids: 2500
a ton of extra boyz and stuff up for trading/selling
Lizardmen: 2500 
   
Made in us
Numberless Necron Warrior





If you want the easiest conversion without magnets, build it like the ghost ark but don't include any warriors and then set the gun into the hull when you want it to be a doomsday ark.

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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Moronic Nonsense wrote:Agreed. Putting that thing together and painting them were some of the most exhausting models I have done.
But my, when they are finished, they look great!

I think the ark is payback for how easy necrons used to be to put together and paint. Block of warriors: spray silver, black ink, done.

Agreed, the painting of the Warriors compensates a bit for the assembling and painting of a Ghost Ark.

I plan to use mine in conjunction with a larger squad of Warriors.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

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Made in br
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker






Doomsday Arks can be disgusting in Hammer&Anvil games. They get to use their full range, can't be assaulted by outflankers...not to mention that if you get Big Guns Never Tire, then can flat out toward an objective at the end of the game and score!

In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.

In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos. 
   
Made in us
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TN

wuestenfux wrote:
Moronic Nonsense wrote:Agreed. Putting that thing together and painting them were some of the most exhausting models I have done.
But my, when they are finished, they look great!

I think the ark is payback for how easy necrons used to be to put together and paint. Block of warriors: spray silver, black ink, done.

Agreed, the painting of the Warriors compensates a bit for the assembling and painting of a Ghost Ark.

I plan to use mine in conjunction with a larger squad of Warriors.


If you want a truly undying horde of zombie robots, then take a big blob of warriors with a res orb lord. right behind them have a Ghost ark filled with either a royal court of crypteks or more warriors for more dakka.
So a few will die from enemy fire, half will get back up from RP, then on your turn up to three more are replaced!

Just do no, i repeat: DO NOT fail a Ld check and run away taking 20 warriors off of the table and off of an objective. :( bad day for me.
and don't get run over in assault. A MSS/Warscythe Lord will help tremendously with this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Serge-David wrote:If you want the easiest conversion without magnets, build it like the ghost ark but don't include any warriors and then set the gun into the hull when you want it to be a doomsday ark.


I took mine a step further and added magnets.

A big magnet at the base of the gun.
and a small magnet on the connection of the warriors.

now you can switch from Ghost ark filled with warriors or an upside down Doomsday ark (which looks just as good as a regular DDArk)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 15:57:23


- Moron
1k sons: in progress
Necrons: 3000
deathwing: 8000
ravenwing: 2000
3rd co: 2000
tyranids: 2500
a ton of extra boyz and stuff up for trading/selling
Lizardmen: 2500 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

Problem with the upside down D.ark is it is a huge advantage to have the gun higher. Like really really big. I play with one and if someone had one on top I would make them check everything from below.

Its the difference between units giving cover or not.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 22:01:36


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Deranged Necron Destroyer





Zagreb

As for OP, I find doomsday ark pretty bad... It is hard to position yourself to have everything in los and any smart opponent will make sure to keep important units out of los... Furthermore, as soon as you add cover in equation, S10 AP1 is just not so good anymore...

On the other hand you have ghost ark, which gives you back warriors, can be used to hold HoD with s8 shot for 115pts... I play only one in my list, but was too happy with it so I'm considering adding one more... Yet, if you play barge, you should have huge squads of warriors... You don't want to lose them in single turn... I go with 2x20 warriors and now 2 barges to bring back 2d3 warriors each turn back... Imortals are great, try to give them cryptek with veil of darkness

As for expanding your army, you should try anihilation barges... They are just amazing

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 22:31:35


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Made in au
Devious Space Marine dedicated to Tzeentch




Australia

In my opinion, the Ghost Ark is preferable. It's rock hard, plenty of hull points, and it has a jink save. I don't even think you need huge warrior squads: just put a squad of 8 warriors and 2 destroteks inside, and open-topped shots make it very formidable. Plus, all of it's gauss shots make it a mini-unit of its own.

I find the Doomsday Ark too expensive. It's great, but for the cost you can get so much more. Their value has improved with the new template rules, and scoring in "Big Guns Never Tire", but there are still better options. And they are very, very fragile. To fire for full effect, they can't move. If they don't move, they don't get jink. And (assuming you only use one) it's very easy for most balanced lists to take it out.

Two Annihilation Barges in heavy support are much better. They're cheaper, tougher, and given the mobility and extra shots, may well end up killing more terminators anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/27 02:38:35


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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Chinchilla wrote:As for OP, I find doomsday ark pretty bad... It is hard to position yourself to have everything in los and any smart opponent will make sure to keep important units out of los... Furthermore, as soon as you add cover in equation, S10 AP1 is just not so good anymore...

I disagree. I don't think you're taking into account the true tactical benefit of the Doomsday Ark:

It's not just a massive cannon; the Doomsday Ark effectively herds your opponent. You have to position the Doomsday Ark so that your opponent is faced with a tough choice: either move through its firing lane -and thus get annihilated-, or else take a different route. If you've deployed the Ark carefully, then you should have already determined the limited number of alternate routes for your opponent, and thus placed the rest of your gunline Necrons accordingly.

That's what I consider to be the true value of the Doomsday Ark: forcing your opponent into the good ol' hammer & anvil gunline tactic. You just have to stop thinking of the Doomsday Ark as a big gun, and more of a laser that cuts off massive sections of the battlefield.
   
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Deranged Necron Destroyer





Zagreb

Or rather tactical choice of blasting it down... It is simple:
2x barge > doomsday ark

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Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

If you want the easiest conversion without magnets, build it like the ghost ark but don't include any warriors and then set the gun into the hull when you want it to be a doomsday ark.


This.

The Doomsday ark looks better if the gun is above the "spine" and can be pulled off to make a ghost ark. Dont stick the Gun, front prow or the little circle that fits the same places, all of thes peices are held in place well without glue and allow you to swap between options.

The night/doom scythe and Anni/Command barge kits can also be swapped around without magnets- Necrons are great for lazy and indecisive modelers like myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/27 14:03:36


 
   
Made in gb
Daemonic Dreadnought





Derby, UK.

Blackgaze wrote:.......But Ghost Arks are fantastic this edition. 4 hull points, jink, no glance damage, rapid fire improvement (+passengers), gauss weapons.......



Eh? The Ghost Ark takes no glance damage? Where'd that come from?

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Praxiss wrote:
Blackgaze wrote:.......But Ghost Arks are fantastic this edition. 4 hull points, jink, no glance damage, rapid fire improvement (+passengers), gauss weapons.......



Eh? The Ghost Ark takes no glance damage? Where'd that come from?


I think he means that you now only roll on the Vehicle Damage chart for Penetrating hits. Glancing only takes off a Hull Point.

-Yad
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Yeah, afaik, a roll of 6 while replenishing Warriors still results in losing a hull point...

   
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Daemonic Dreadnought





Derby, UK.

Ah, i see.

I like the idea of the Doomsday Ark effectively cutting off sections of the table.

My only issue is that, in order to stay effective it has to stay still, which means it is auto-hit in CC and never gets the 5+ jink save that skimmers now get.

it woudl be great for splatting squads fo terminator or other 2+ save/high T nasties. But With guass melting armoru there are other, cheaper, more versatile anti-vehicle options.

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Longtime Dakkanaut




Indiana

He means no rolls on the glancing table I think.


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Praxiss wrote:Ah, i see.

I like the idea of the Doomsday Ark effectively cutting off sections of the table.

My only issue is that, in order to stay effective it has to stay still, which means it is auto-hit in CC and never gets the 5+ jink save that skimmers now get.

it woudl be great for splatting squads fo terminator or other 2+ save/high T nasties. But With guass melting armoru there are other, cheaper, more versatile anti-vehicle options.


Yeah, but good positioning and a 72'' range ought to keep you safe from assault for a bit. Only two units that I'm aware of can come out of reserves and assault the turn they arrive (Ymgarl Genestealers & Vanguard Vets). You also can't assault the turn you Outflank so that helps. I haven't used the Doomsday Ark yet, but I've a lot of success with the Ghost Ark. I typically advance with a 10 man warrior squad on foot (Lord w/Res Orb) supporting by a Ghost Ark w/9 Warriors and Destruction Cryptek). Between the Res Orb and the Repair Barge, I've had my warrior squad last all game, getting whittled down to 2 members and then brought back to full strength just in time to claim an objective. Meanwhile the volume of shots is lethel to both infantry and vehicles alike.

My Elites section is pretty much devoted to Deathmarks w/Dispair Crypteks. If the points are high enough I'll try some C'tan shinanigans. Rapid Fire Sniper rifles are no joke. Precision Shot, Rending, and Hunters from Hyperspace is a potent combination. Coupled with the Abyssal Staff it's downright mean. I Veiled in to a marked 15 man Firewarrior squad and reduced the squad to one lone Fire warrior. You're definitely taking a gamble on the Veil hitting where you want to set up the staff, but when it works you do some serious damage.

-Yad

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/27 15:16:19


 
   
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Swift Swooping Hawk





Massachusetts

Sigvatr wrote:Yeah, afaik, a roll of 6 while replenishing Warriors still results in losing a hull point...

You mean a 1

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Decrepit Dakkanaut





Gangrel767 wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:Yeah, afaik, a roll of 6 while replenishing Warriors still results in losing a hull point...

You mean a 1


Just a test.

   
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TN

Yad wrote:
Praxiss wrote:Ah, i see.

I like the idea of the Doomsday Ark effectively cutting off sections of the table.

My only issue is that, in order to stay effective it has to stay still, which means it is auto-hit in CC and never gets the 5+ jink save that skimmers now get.

it woudl be great for splatting squads fo terminator or other 2+ save/high T nasties. But With guass melting armoru there are other, cheaper, more versatile anti-vehicle options.


Yeah, but good positioning and a 72'' range ought to keep you safe from assault for a bit. Only two units that I'm aware of can come out of reserves and assault the turn they arrive (Ymgarl Genestealers & Vanguard Vets). You also can't assault the turn you Outflank so that helps.

-Yad


You pretty much got it. I have never had to fear my DDArk getting assaulted in CC, there is always other stuff inbetween.
Guass may melt armor, but it doesn't do much against 2+ armor saves, wraithguards, or anything similar to those. The DDArk for me is an elite killer primarily, that can also wreck tanks, especiallly parking lots.

- Moron
1k sons: in progress
Necrons: 3000
deathwing: 8000
ravenwing: 2000
3rd co: 2000
tyranids: 2500
a ton of extra boyz and stuff up for trading/selling
Lizardmen: 2500 
   
 
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