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Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

http://kotaku.com/5929161/how-warcraft-was-almost-a-warhammer-game-and-how-that-saved-wow


Ever since the first Warcraft game was released in 1994, fans of the series have been saying, some with kinder words than others, that the series feels similar to Games Workshop's Warhammer universe. It's a sentiment that only intensified after the release of World of Warcraft, ushering in millions of new fans to Blizzard's games who may not have been aware of Warhammer's existence.

This has led to all kinds of allegations and whispers, ranging from Blizzard directly ripping off Games Workshop's fantasy universe (which was created in 1983) to the original Warcraft starting life as a Warhammer game.

The truth, as it often is, lies somewhere in between.

Patrick Wyatt, the Producer on Warcraft, explains in a lengthy "making of" feature that some at Blizzard had wanted to make a Warhammer game, but things just didn't work out.

"[Blizzard co-founder] Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition", Wyatt says. "Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game."

"It's surprising now to think what might have happened had Blizzard not controlled the intellectual property rights for the Warcraft universe - it's highly unlikely Blizzard would be such a dominant player in the game industry today."

That may sound dramatic, but it's also probably true. Blizzard's status as one of the giants of the industry (as opposed to being just a really good developer) is built almost solely on the money and fanbase World of Warcraft has generated over the years. Had Blizzard not been in control of Warcraft's fiction, it's attempts to spin a strategy game into a role-playing title - one popular with the mainstream, not just tabletop gaming fans - may have gone nowhere.

The similarities have, though, led to a few awkward moments, as Wyatt explains.

"Years after the launch of Warcraft my dad, upon returning from a trip to Asia, gave me a present of a set of Warhammer miniatures in the form of a skeleton charioteer and horses with the comment: 'I found these cool toys on my trip and they reminded me a lot of your game; you might want to have your legal department contact them because I think they're ripping you off'"

Luke's Note: I'm handing the reins over tonight to Patrick Wyatt, a games development legend and former Blizzard executive who has played a big role in the success of games like StarCraft, Diablo and Guild Wars.

This is the first part of his insider's story of the making of Warcraft, which he knows a thing or two about, since he was both Producer and Lead Programmer on the game. If you're a fan of Warcraft, its universe, Blizzard or just video game history in general, it's a great read.
Back before the dawn of time, which is to say when PC games were written for the DOS operating system, I got to work on a game called Warcraft.

I get to lead a project!

While I had developed several PC games, a couple of Mac games, and seven console titles for the Super Nintendo and Sega Genesis, I was either in a junior role on those projects, or the projects were game "ports" rather than original development work. A game "port" is the process of moving a game from one platform, like the Amiga, and converting the code, design, artwork and other game assets to make them work on another, like the Nintendo.

My role encompassed two jobs: leading the development team as Producer - a game industry term for project manager, designer, evangelist, and cat herder - and writing the majority of the game code as Lead Programmer. This was perhaps less daunting then, when a game project might employ ten or twenty developers, than it is now, with development teams tipping the scales at two-hundred or more developers.

The source of Warcraft

The developers at the startup company I worked for - then named Silicon & Synapse but later renamed Blizzard in a nod towards our tempestuous development methodology - played a great many games during our free time. And from that game-playing came the spark to create Warcraft.

We were inspired to create Warcraft after playing (and replaying and replaying) a game called Dune 2, by Westwood Studios. Dune 2 was arguably the first modern real-time strategy (RTS) game; with a scrolling world map, real-time unit construction and movement, and individual unit combat. It isn't that much different in design than a modern RTS like Starcraft 2, excepting perhaps a certain scale and graphics quality.

Its predecessor, Dune 1 - a very worthy game itself - shared some of the same elements, but its semi-real-time unit combat was wrapped inside an adventure game. Dune 2 stripped its predecessors' idea of the player representing a character inside the game-world and focused exclusively on the modern RTS mechanics: harvesting resources, building a base, harvesting more resources, building an army, and finally, finding and conquering the enemy.



Along with the other folks at Blizzard I exhaustively played Dune 2 during lunch breaks and after work, playing each of the three competing races to determine their strengths and weaknesses; and afterward comparing play-styles, strategies and tactics with others in the office.

While the game was great fun, it suffered from several obvious defects that called out (nay, screamed) to be fixed. Most notably, the only way that my friends and I could play the game was against the computer. It was obvious that this gaming style would be ideal as a multiplayer game. Unlike turn-based games, where each player must wait for all opponents to issue unit movement orders, a real-time game would enable all players to give orders simultaneously, placing a premium on rapid, decisive tactical movements over long, drawn-out strategic planning.

And with that singular goal in mind, development of the game began without any serious effort to plan the game design, evaluate the technical requirements, build the schedule, or budget for the required staff. Not even on a napkin. Back at Blizzard we called this the "business plan du jour", which was or standard operating methodology.

Initial development

As the sole developer on the project, and lacking an art team during the initial phase, I screen-captured the artwork of Dune 2 to use until such time as my forward progress warranted an artist or two. The artists were tied up working on any number of other pressing deadlines and didn't need distractions at this point - we were always pressed for time.

My early programming efforts developing the game engine included creating a tile-based scrolling map renderer, a sprite renderer to draw game units and other bitmaps, a sprite-sequencing engine to animate game units, an event-dispatcher to post mouse and keyboard events, a game-dispatcher to control unit-behavior, and a great deal of user-interface code to control application behavior. With this subset of the project completed in the first few weeks it became possible to "play" a solo game, though I didn't implement unit-construction until sometime later; early play required using typed commands to spawn units on screen.

Each day I'd build upon the previous efforts in organic fashion. Without schedule milestones or an external driver for the project, I was in the enviable position of choosing which features to build next, which made me incredibly motivated. I already enjoyed game development, and getting to do this green-field programming was like a drug. Even now, some 22 years after getting into the game industry, I still love the creative aspects of programming.

The first unique feature: multi-unit selection

One feature of which I was particularly proud was unit-selection. Unlike Dune 2, which only allowed the user to select a single unit at a time, and which necessitated frenzied mouse-clicking to initiate joint-unit tactical combat, it was obvious that enabling players to select more than one unit would speed task-force deployment and dramatically improve game combat.

Before I started in the game industry I had worked extensively with several low-end "Computer Assisted Design" (CAD) programs like MacDraw and MacDraft to design wine-cellars for my dad's wine cellar business, so it seemed natural to use the "click & drag" rectangle-selection metaphor to round up a group of units to command.

I believe that Warcraft was the first game to use this user-interface metaphor. When I first implemented the feature it was possible to select and control large numbers of units at a time; there was no upper limit on the number of units that could be selected.

While selecting and controlling one hundred units at a time demonstrated terrible weaknesses in the simple path-finding algorithm I had implemented, after I got the basic algorithms working I nevertheless spent hours selecting units and dispatching game units to destinations around the map instead of writing more code; it was the coolest feature I had ever created in my programming career up to that time!

Later in the development process, and after many design arguments between team-members, we decided to allow players to select only four units at a time based on the idea that users would be required to pay attention to their tactical deployments rather than simply gathering a mob and sending them into the fray all at once. We later increased this number to nine in Warcraft II. Command and Conquer, the spiritual successor to Dune 2, didn't have any upper bound on the number of units that could be selected. It's worth another article to talk about the design ramifications, for sure.



Apart from the ability to control multiple units at one time, at this phase Warcraft resembled nothing so much as a stripped-down version of Dune 2, so much so that I defensively joked that, while Warcraft was certainly inspired by Dune 2, the game was radically different - our radar minimap was in the upper-left corner of the screen, whereas theirs was in the lower-right corner.

The formation of the fellowship

By early 1994, I had made enough progress to warrant additional help on the project. I was joined by Ron Millar, Sam Didier, Stu Rose, Bob Fitch, Jesse McReynolds, Mike Morhaime, Mickey Nielsen, and others. Many of these folks started work on the game after our company was acquired by Davidson & Associates in February 1994.

Ron Millar was originally hired on as an artist based on his skill in creating artwork for Gameboy titles at Virgin Games, but his amazing creativity and design sensibilities led to his taking on a design role in many Blizzard projects, and he stepped into a similar role for Warcraft.

Sam Didier, a strong, stocky and stalwart character who resembled nothing so much as a bear scaled down to human proportions, and whose heroic characters and epic drawings are now the definitive art style for Blizzard games, had honed his computer drawing skills on sixteen-bit console titles, but his penchant for drawing fantasy artwork during meetings and at any other spare moment demonstrated his capability to lead the art direction for this new title.

Stu Rose - whose background as an illustrator led to his design of the Blizzard logo still used today - initially contributed to the background tile-map artwork, but he would later take on a critical role in the ultimate design of Warcraft. Stu is quite memorable as a voice actor in the role of Human Peon, where his rendition of a downtrodden brute-laborer was comedic genius.

Bob Fitch had started work as a programmer and project lead on another title at the same time I started development of Warcraft. Allen Adham, the president of Blizzard, had assigned Bob the task of building a word game called "Games People Play" that would include crossword, scramble, boggle, and other similar diversions. Bob's notable lack of enthusiasm for the project resulted in his making little progress on the title for many months; with Warcraft showing well Bob was released to assist me, and his enthusiasm for the game helped move the project forward more rapidly.

Jesse, a Caltech graduate, started work on building a network driver for the IPX network protocol so the game could be played on a Local Area Network (LAN). Mike Morhaime, one of the two co-founders of Blizzard, later took on the significantly more difficult task of writing a "mixed-mode" modem driver. While Warcraft was a DOS "Protected Mode" game, the modem driver could be called from both Protected Mode and Real Mode due to quirks in the DOS operating system and the 80386 chip-architecture it ran on, so he could regularly be found in his office staring at screens full of diagnostic numbers as he worked through the complicated timing issues related to re-entrant code. At the end of the day, the modem code was rock-solid, quite an achievement given the primitive toolset we had at the time.

Warcraft art

Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition. Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game.

It's surprising now to think what might have happened had Blizzard not controlled the intellectual property rights for the Warcraft universe - it's highly unlikely Blizzard would be such a dominant player in the game industry today.

Years after the launch of Warcraft my dad, upon returning from a trip to Asia, gave me a present of a set of Warhammer miniatures in the form of a skeleton charioteer and horses with the comment: "I found these cool toys on my trip and they reminded me a lot of your game; you might want to have your legal department contact them because I think they're ripping you off." Hmmm!



Blockers to game development

One interesting facet of the early development process was that, while I was building a game that would be playable using modems or a local area network, the company had no office LAN. Because we developed console titles, which would easily fit on a floppy disk, it wasn't something that was necessary, though it would certainly have simplified making backups.

So when I started collaborating with other artists and programmers, we used the "sneaker network", carrying floppy disks back and forth between offices to integrate source code revisions and artwork.

Bob Fitch was the second programmer on the project, and he and I would regularly copy files and code-changes back and forth. Periodically we'd make integration mistakes and a bug we fixed would re-appear. We'd track it down and discover that - during file-copying while integrating changes - we had accidentally overwritten the bug fix, and we'd have to remember how we had fixed it previously.

This happened more than a few times because of the rapidity with which we developed code and our lack of any processes to handle code-integration other than "remembering" which files we had worked on. I was somewhat luckier in this regard in that my computer was the "master" system upon which we performed all the integrations, so my changes were less likely to get lost. These days we use source-control to avoid such stupidities, but back then we didn't even know what it was!

With more programmers, designers and artists working on the title progress increased substantially, but we also discovered a big blocker to our progress. The game was initially developed in DOS "Real Mode", which meant that only 640K of memory was available, less about 120K for the operating system. Can you believe how crap computers were back then!?!

As the art team started creating game units, backgrounds and user-interface artwork, we rapidly burned through all of the memory and started looking for alternatives. A first attempt at a solution was to use EMS "paged memory" mapping and store art resources "above" the 640K memory barrier.

Stories programmers tell about EMS memory are like those that old folks tell about walking uphill to school, barefoot, in the snow, both ways, except that EMS stories are even more horrible, and actually true.

In any event the EMS solution quite fortunately didn't work; it turned out there was a better solution. A company called Watcom released a C compiler which included a DOS-mode "extender" that allowed programs to be written in "Protected Mode" with access to linear 32-bit memory, something every programmer takes for granted today when they write 32-bit (or even 64-bit applications). While it required a couple of days to update the source code, the DOS-mode extender worked perfectly, and we were back in business, now with access to substantially more memory.

Not the conclusion

In the next article in this series I'll talk about Stu Rose and the design coup, the first multiplayer game of Warcraft, the bug that nearly killed multiplayer, how Bill Roper made Warcraft awesome, fitting the game onto floppy disks, the Westwood Studio reaction to our game, and other gems I can dredge up from a game that I and the other members of the development team worked on eighteen (!) years ago.

As a game developer with more than 22 years in the industry Patrick has helped build small companies into big ones (VP of Blizzard, Founder of ArenaNet, COO of En Masse Entertainment); lead the design and development efforts for best-selling game series (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft, Guild Wars); written code for virtually every aspect of game development (networking, graphics, AI, pathing, sound, tools, installers, servers, databases, ecommerce, analytics, crypto, dev-ops, etc.); designed many aspects of the games he's shipped; run platform services teams (datacenter operations, customer support, billing/accounts, security, analytics); and developed state-of-the-art technologies required to compete in the AAA+ game publishing business.

He blogs over on Code of Honor, which is where this story originally appeared (republished with permission).


.. so now we know eh ?

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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Made in gb
Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




In Blizzard's defense, with the new expansion coming out in September, they're not ripping off Warhammer at all. They've moved on to rip off kung-fu Panda and Pokemon instead.
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S

Blizzard rips off any pop-culture these days to stay in the game.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier



Shangri-La

Inspiration comes from every corner of the world. It's not like war hammer universe is original either!

People complaining about ripping people off... Lol!
   
Made in us
Crazed Gorger





D&D rips off Tolkien, GW rips off D&D, everybody rips off GW...whatever.

40K especially can be seen as an influence in SOOO many games, which just speak to the fact that creative gamers like it and those who create the games like it. It makes sense.

It's like Bruce Lee and GAME OF DEATH. This one movie was the inspiration for basically every video game for the next 40 years. Levels...fighting...next opponent harder then the previous. Doesn't mean that Bruce Lee invented the concept or invented Mortal Kombat

2000 pts 20-4-3
( ) 1500 pts 5-0
 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

deggreg@yahoo.com wrote:D&D rips off Tolkien, GW rips off D&D, everybody rips off GW...whatever.

.....


GW has had business/licences with all of those bodies in the past plus M.Moorcock and others, GW being influenced by said relationships would seem to be obvious result rather than rip offs. I'm never sure as to the validity of those that claim no fair when there has never existed a contractural arrangement betwixt GW and whatever company GW is currently assaulting at that time.

How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
Made in us
Wraith





That's news to Mr. Moorcock, the Terminator robots, and Aliens, among many others.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Eternal Plague

Fantasy and Fiction derive a lot from prior history and fictional creations.

Without mythical influences from across the globe spanning Native America lore, Greco-roman mythology, Indian and far eastern legends, and medieval superstition, there would be no basis for many modern fantasy tropes and themes.

Without the complex and rich tapestry of the historical and political machinations of bygone eras, we wouldn't get the background for which science fiction plots originate.

Without the authors like HG Wells and Jules Verne to name a few, we wouldn't have the creation of the early modern prose and literature that future writers like JRR Tolkein (to name very few) would build upon, much less the designers of the gaming systems that started with HG Wells, continued through TSR, and carried on by the modern WOTCs and GWs that produce the games that we now enjoy.

Its a lattice of successive ideas we continue to build upon and will continue to do so. To think otherwise would be to believe that any newly originated concern was not human in origin.

   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Good read, not all true I think but a good read, I still remember reading about a possible lawsuit back in the 90's, so who knows what really happened lol.

Blizzard (like GW) rips off alot of stuff, its all part and parcel of being a developer, look at CoD MW1 and all the games that followed it (in the same genre)..shamlessly ripping off chucky egg...fo shame
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

12thRonin wrote:That's news to Mr. Moorcock.......


http://www.solegends.com/citec/index.htm

GW also had a hand with Stormbringer for some time as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/27 06:19:43


How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
Made in us
Wraith





notprop wrote:
12thRonin wrote:That's news to Mr. Moorcock.......


http://www.solegends.com/citec/index.htm

GW also had a hand with Stormbringer for some time as well.


Which has nothing to do with all the Chaos iconography which is the point of contention between them. Or anything else listed that they blatantly stole ideas from. Thanks for playing though.
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

There is no point of contention between them or if there was this case of apparently blatant (really?) theft would have been settled many a moon ago.

As far as I'm aware moorcocks version of chaos exists in the Elric stories. I mean he's behold to a Lord of Chaos, but you're right that has nothing to do with anything.

Your thanks are nice but I'll leave you to play with yourself.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/27 17:31:11


How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





USA - New York

This is really interesting. They don't go into detail about the similarities between 40k and Starcraft though. Maybe in part 2...

4000pts  
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

While the argument that "Everything is derivative." does stick really well, I think that GW is as every bit as derivative as Blizzard. It may just be that Blizzard was more focused in deriving it's flavor from GW since it had such an aggregate to work from.
GW had obviously derived most of it's foundation from Tolkien/D&D, Star Wars, Alien, Terminator, Robotech, Etc.
While Blizzard could have done the same, it seems like they are deriving from GW, since GW did all the leg work already.

That said, Tolkien/D&D, Star Wars, Alien, Terminator, Robotech, Etc. can all be traced back to earlier works as well.
Do a tiny bit of Wiki-ing, and you'll find that all of this information is readily available.
   
Made in nz
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




Giant genetically modified guys in armor running around shooting aliens. That's The halo game franchise for sure! It's also a lot like space marines from wh40k, which came first. It's also a bit like metroid, dead space and mass effect. It's not as simple as that's a rip off. While halo is blatantly a rip off of space marines, I'm sure everyone is glad that they did do that rip off because other wise we wouldn't have halo and all it's influences on modern day fps's. I'm also sure that one of the designers of spae marines In The first place is glad that they were blatantly ripped off by halo and all those other games, and are probably glad that they ripped their ideas off some thing else so that those games could be made. As I said its not that simple.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Strangely - while Bungie has acknowledged dozens of points of inspiration...40K never even gets a nod...

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&link=bungiescifiguide

Might it be because genetically modified soldiers aren't very unique (hello clone trooper)? Or Armor. Or Starship Troopers (the book...not the movies). Or any number of dozens of sci-fi books, movies and comics which came years, and sometimes decades before GW or even Citadel existed.
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos







Halo's more of a rip-off of Marathon.

Which doesn't count, as it was also by Bungie.

Working on someting you'll either love or hate. Hopefully to be revealed by November.
Play the games that make you happy. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I got really excited when I saw this, because I`ve always sought out a source of reliable information about the `Starcraft is a 40K rip-off / Starcraft started out as a 40K game" ideas, but it was pretty disappointing that it focused on WoW instead (which, despite similarities to WHFB, also relies on the now-generic fantasy tropes of elves/dwarfs/humans/etc).
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





After no known public confrontations on intellectual property, Blizzard and Games Workshop are industry giants still today.

Maybe Chapterhouse should have learned something.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





DarknessEternal wrote:After no known public confrontations on intellectual property, Blizzard and Games Workshop are industry giants still today.

Maybe Chapterhouse should have learned something.

Isn't Chapterhouse winning that suit?

I think the actual takeaway here is that GW is only comfortable bullying the little guy, and won't go after somebody with deep pockets and widespread publicity who will defend themselves, like Blizzard.
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Altruizine wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:After no known public confrontations on intellectual property, Blizzard and Games Workshop are industry giants still today.

Maybe Chapterhouse should have learned something.

Isn't Chapterhouse winning that suit?

Not really. There's nobody "winning" at this point.

There's hardly any progress on the case at all going on.

I think the actual takeaway here is that GW is only comfortable bullying the little guy, and won't go after somebody with deep pockets and widespread publicity who will defend themselves, like Blizzard.

The actual takeaway is that Blizzard was not "somebody with deep pockets and widespread publicity" when they were in their infancy, and that if one actually reads an article you can see where the fine line between "inspiration" and "rip off" lies.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Banshee






Cardiff, United Kingdom

BrookM wrote:Blizzard rips off any pop-culture these days to stay in the game.


Sly Marbo and M'Shen would like a word...

   
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Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






As with any creative project, 40k was an 'adaption' of what came before it.

Fantasy races from Tolkeen (who used historical lore) but in the future, Tau from anime, Necrons from the terminator (WBB), Space Marines are knights, IG are WWI, WWI, mongols, and other armies, Old Ones are from HP Lovecraft, Chaos use a symbol that is older than 40k, BA are vampires, Space Wolves are werewolves, Abbaddon could be a Judas (when the emperor is the messiah), Tyrannids are aliens, and so on.

Everything in 40k is a blatant spinoff of something that came before, just like Warcraft has a ton of obvious culture references as well. Looking at both with that in mind, their similarities start and end with the approach that both companies use to incorporate a large pool of popular themes in their games and they just happen to clearly overlap on their sources.

There isn't anything good or bad about that, but they should make it clear that they are unique because of their approach to such common themes, not as a source of some new kind of idea that didn't exist before.

   
Made in nz
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




HellI clone troopers aren't really genetically modified to any great extent, if at all, unless you count cloning as genetic modification.
Also if bungee were to say 40k was an inspiration they would be liable to be sued as 40k fps games are competting in exactly the same genre of games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 01:58:13


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Nemesor wrote:HellI clone troopers aren't really genetically modified to any great extent, if at all, unless you count cloning as genetic modification.
Also if bungee were to say 40k was an inspiration they would be liable to be sued as 40k fps games are competting in exactly the same genes of games.


Look at the list - they mention many FPS games which they are/were/will be competing against.
   
Made in nz
Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch




snooggums wrote:As with any creative project, 40k was an 'adaption' of what came before it.

Fantasy races from Tolkeen (who used historical lore) but in the future, Tau from anime, Necrons from the terminator (WBB), Space Marines are knights, IG are WWI, WWI, mongols, and other armies, Old Ones are from HP Lovecraft, Chaos use a symbol that is older than 40k, BA are vampires, Space Wolves are werewolves, Abbaddon could be a Judas (when the emperor is the messiah), Tyrannids are aliens, and so on.

Everything in 40k is a blatant spinoff of something that came before, just like Warcraft has a ton of obvious culture references as well. Looking at both with that in mind, their similarities start and end with the approach that both companies use to incorporate a large pool of popular themes in their games and they just happen to clearly overlap on their sources.

There isn't anything good or bad about that, but they should make it clear that they are unique because of their approach to such common themes, not as a source of some new kind of idea that didn't exist before.


Well knights aren't actually anyone's intellectual property, as they just are, IG are obviously just your average army, and are not related to any time period, especially not mongols (hello that's white scars) as Mongols were hordes of guys on horses burning libraries (ok that's not so much white scars) with their leaders being called khans. Space wolves are Vikings not werewolves. Abbadon is not judas, neither was Horus. Everywhere you look there are references to H.P Lovecraft, and I believe that his universe is out there for anyone to write tie ins to. Hell to the no BA aren't exactly your typical Dracula (trust me, I hae read a really old version I the book (the old fashioned language is hard to read)) Also how would the emperor be a messiah if he is preaching the lack of the existence of gods. Really abbadon is the messiah. So sorry to have proved wrong most of what you have said, I think that only thing in your post that is right is the fact that crons are (or were originally) based on terminators.


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Yeah, none of those games are particularly like halo in the actual ideas within them (in terms of the genetically modified giants in amour) though. Half life is no more like halo than any other fps game is to any other fps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 01:56:54


 
   
Made in gb
Screaming Banshee






Cardiff, United Kingdom

Nemesor wrote:IG are obviously just your average army

FOR CADIA!
Spoiler:



Nemesor wrote:and are not related to any time period

En Francais?
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Ourrah!






This one's eerie...



Obviously beyond that we have Praetorians, Death Korps, Catachans, etc. As a matter of fact the only 'non-historical' Guard armies I can think of off the top of my head are the Elysians and possibly the Iron Guard, since some say they are contemporary USMC in dress uniform (though I think an argument exists to suggest that they are Prussians)

   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






Nemesor wrote:Well knights aren't actually anyone's intellectual property.
...
Hell to the no BA aren't exactly your typical Dracula (trust me, I hae read a really old version I the book (the old fashioned language is hard to read))


I think you missed the point of my post, that 40k is a reinterpretation of previous ideas and not something that came from nothing.

Also how would the emperor be a messiah if he is preaching the lack of the existence of gods. .






   
Made in ca
Water-Caste Negotiator





Guelph

Nemesor wrote:Also how would the emperor be a messiah if he is preaching the lack of the existence of gods.


It's a literary comparison. I made the comparison here, and I will say that they parallel quite well, but I have since deleted it out of concern that it could offend some of the more sensitive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 10:57:16


Everyone knows if you paint your last miniature, you die. - Kaldor

 
   
 
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