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Hey everyone!
While I was tossing up between SW and RG for my first 6th Ed army, I was taking a look a VV. Now I know how the majority hate them, but just hear this one out. I've been playing with my DE and crons for 6th so far, and without fleet on my DE, I would have a 30% successful charge rate instead of 100% so far (poor wraiths for my crons ). Now normally I would just ally in BA VV, but Shrike can only give fleet to codex marines (am I right here? Or this changes everything!) but now they are almost Garunteed to get the charge on the turn they DS, did VV get a heck of a lot better in 6th Ed?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that unist that arrived via deep strike cannot charge on the same turn they did so. But anyway I do hope that vanguard are better now. The unit has always sounded pretty awesome and I'd like to run one with a chaplain but they cost way too many points especially because they need to be upgraded to have jump packs.

They have a special rule 'heroic intervention' which allows them to assault after DS, however they cannot have an IC with them if they want to do that. Shame they can get HOW as well.

Ah. Forgot that rule. In that case they sound viable.

While fleet has its perks in an all assault army, Shrike himself has been nerfed since you can't assault after infiltrating... As mentioned above you can't assault with heroic intervention if an IC is attached either. So a first turn assault is pretty much denied.
That doesn't mean that fleet is not valid though, it really boosts your assault range! Assault Termies in LRC--> LRC starts at 12", moves 6", termies deploy within 6", then a decent chance at a 10-12" assault, if you went 2nd you might be able to reach an enemy that moved forward a bit.

You could also use Shrike to infiltrate/outflank some tactical terminators. An assault cannon showing up inside the enemy's deployment zone is nothing to be sniffed at.

Or any other shooting unit, sternguard or what-have-you. Shrike would act as a good charge deterrent, and he could link up with the VV's if possible.

Lokas wrote:You could also use Shrike to infiltrate/outflank some tactical terminators. An assault cannon showing up inside the enemy's deployment zone is nothing to be sniffed at.

Or any other shooting unit, sternguard or what-have-you. Shrike would act as a good charge deterrent, and he could link up with the VV's if possible.

Then I'd take a full tactical Termie squad with 2 assault cannons. Ouch!

phoenix darkus wrote:While fleet has its perks in an all assault army, Shrike himself has been nerfed since you can't assault after infiltrating... As mentioned above you can't assault with heroic intervention if an IC is attached either. So a first turn assault is pretty much denied.
That doesn't mean that fleet is not valid though, it really boosts your assault range! Assault Termies in LRC--> LRC starts at 12", moves 6", termies deploy within 6", then a decent chance at a 10-12" assault, if you went 2nd you might be able to reach an enemy that moved forward a bit.

Can you not assault after infiltrating? I missed that...

In the last game of 5th Ed I played (at a local tournament) and if the above is correct and you can't assault after infiltrating, it won't work but, Shrike, 10 Termies and a jump Chaplain, move Shrike or Chaplain forward 10", other 8" and Termies 6". Obviously the characters leave the unit to move, and then re-join at the end of the movement phase. With fleet you then should hopefully get that 8" charge you need to get in first turn. Nasty tactic when it can be used, but perhaps not anymore?.

But yeah, I think Vangaurd are better now. Especially if your using Drop Pods, with locater beacons drop them near the enemy line, Vanguard DS within 6" are going to be near enemy, decent charge range. Expensive squad but could be very worthwhile.

Definitely gonna have to play test these guys soon!