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So this came up the other day during a game, Lucius Pattern drop pod comes down first go and allows a dreadnought to assault out of it.

However the rulebook says that you can't assault first turn.

Can you assault first turn using the drop pod then?

I did initially tell my opponent that they didn't follow the normal drop pod rules and couldn't come down first turn, I checked my IA book though once i got home and reliesed i was wrong about that, though we couldn't remember if it was a dangerous terrain test when you assault so i let my mate off when he rolled a 1 so don't feel that bad! so yeah now it got me thinking what the deal is with it.

Th0a wrote:
However the rulebook says that you can't assault first turn.

No it doesn't. It lists a few instances where you can't assault on the first turn, but there's no sweeping rule forbidding it.

Oh OK thanks! I've got to learn to read!

Its the drop pods special rule so it beats the normal rules that everything else has to follow.

It would seem the drop pod overides it. Codex over rulebook.

Just make sure he rolled the dangerous terrain test, as per IA Apoc 2nd edition (the same one where BA get the lucius removed as an option)

Theres 2 restrictions here.
1) cannot assault out of a moving transport
2) cannot assault from reserves

I'm not sure what the wording on the pod is - does it clear both of those?

rigeld2 wrote:Theres 2 restrictions here.
1) cannot assault out of a moving transport
2) cannot assault from reserves

I'm not sure what the wording on the pod is - does it clear both of those?

Im pretty sure its considered an Assault vehicle

Talamare wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:Theres 2 restrictions here.
1) cannot assault out of a moving transport
2) cannot assault from reserves

I'm not sure what the wording on the pod is - does it clear both of those?

Im pretty sure its considered an Assault vehicle

The rule specifically says that a dreadnought can assault the same turn in which it arrives from deep strike in this particular drop pod. Regular drop pods say you can't, but the Lucius says you can.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Just make sure he rolled the dangerous terrain test, as per IA Apoc 2nd edition (the same one where BA get the lucius removed as an option)

I didn't even check who can field them, I really need to read more thoroughly, it was a blood angels army i was fighting and i felt bad i stooped the first turn assault when they shouldn't of been on the field!?

TWIST

I'll check my book once i get back

A couple of things here (though most are already mentioned so I'm summing up):

1) There is no rule that forbids a turn 1 charge. It is just hugely unlikely in the current rules, and there are set circumstances when it is forbidden (infiltrating and scout moving).

2) You are stopped from charging on the turn you arrive from reserve however the Lucius pattern drop pod specifically overrides this (being open topped it is also an assault vehicle not that that would ever make a difference to a DP).

3) This may have changed with Imp. armour but in the previous rules the Lucius did not have the drop pod assault rule so was not elligible to come down turn 1. I haven't got Imp Armour Apoc 2nd Ed so you'd have to check, but you may well find that is still the case and is something some poeple have chosen to overlook...

FlingitNow wrote:
3) This may have changed with Imp. armour but in the previous rules the Lucius did not have the drop pod assault rule so was not elligible to come down turn 1. I haven't got Imp Armour Apoc 2nd Ed so you'd have to check, but you may well find that is still the case and is something some poeple have chosen to overlook...

Yeah, its got Drop Pod assault.

But just to point out that it is a separate Fast Attack choice and does have a 1 in 6 chance of the Dread immobilizing itself when it tries to charge out of the Pod. Combine that with the 65 point price of the Pod and its actually not quite as nasty as some people want to believe.

FlingitNow wrote:
3) This may have changed with Imp. armour but in the previous rules the Lucius did not have the drop pod assault rule so was not elligible to come down turn 1. I haven't got Imp Armour Apoc 2nd Ed so you'd have to check, but you may well find that is still the case and is something some poeple have chosen to overlook...

This was changed with IA 2nd. Lucius has the Drop Pod Assault rule now.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Just make sure he rolled the dangerous terrain test, as per IA Apoc 2nd edition (the same one where BA get the lucius removed as an option)

To clarify, in the event of an Apocalypse game it is said to be available to any loyalist marines, which would include Blood Angels.

For a standard 40k game however it is not granted to Blood Angels.

If I am taking an Ironclad Dreadnought which has Move Through Cover special rule, do I need to take the dangerous terrain test?

UPDATE: Found it, Move Through Cover automatically passes Dangerous Terrain Test. Time to pop a Land Raider and kill everyone inside, turn 1.

Does anyone else see that moving out 6" from the Drop Pod and then be able to charge 12" a bit OP?

No, as you automatically pass it.

leohart wrote:If I am taking an Ironclad Dreadnought which has Move Through Cover special rule, do I need to take the dangerous terrain test?

UPDATE: Found it, Move Through Cover automatically passes Dangerous Terrain Test. Time to pop a Land Raider and kill everyone inside, turn 1.

Does anyone else see that moving out 6" from the Drop Pod and then be able to charge 12" a bit OP?

But it's 65 points and takes a FA slot! There can be no imbalance there!

Yes, it's insane when all but one or two other "appear from reserves and assault" went away - and I'm not sure there are any other first turn assaults like that anymore. (assaulting a unit that infiltrated aside)

Stormboyz, Vanguard veterans and Yrmgarls can also launch an assault the same turn they arrive from reserve.

However none of them can arrive on the first turn.

And in fact, Infiltrators have been forbidden from assaulting on the first player turn.

But let's look at some perspective here guys.

The bare bones Ironclad and Lucius is 200 points and takes up both an Elites and Fast Attack slot. Yes, the ability to ignore the Lucius' Dangerous Terrain test when assaulting with the Ironclad is fantastic, but again this unit is not even remotely broken once you've faced it a few times and know what to expect. Is the 6" Disembark and then potential 12" charge increase its threat range? Of course, but it also means the Dread can FAIL its charge every now and then as well or take a lucky Meltagun shot to the face from Overwatch when its charging.

Got a Land Raider? Put it in reserve or bubble wrap it with enough guys to keep the Dread out of 12". While AV13 in combat is indeed very nice as it prevents Krak Grenades from just destroying this thing, we're still talking about only 3 Hull Points, so even a single character in a squad with a Powerfist can eventually take this Dread out if the combat drags on...which can happen quite often now that no extra 'No Retreat' wounds are being generated.

And with the ability for units to bail out of combat if they have no chance to hurt a Dread when they want (leaving the Dread exposed to fire) and the ability for other marine armies to use ATSKNF and Combat Tactics as well, Dreads like this that are designed to get stuck in are actually really vulnerable after they make their initial strike.

Finally, the Pod being a Fast Attack choice really hurts because in the 'Scouring' mission now those are really easy Victory Points to capture. Yeah, the pods can also score in that mission, but if you're using the pod to drop near an objective then you're probably not getting the Dread in a place where it can do maximum damage, so ultimately I think its definitely much more of a liability than a blessing in that mission.


So is this a good unit? Sure. But at 200 points combined, it SHOULD be. Is it game-breaking? Not in the least. Nearly every change in 6th edition (besides making 'move through cover' ignore dangerous terrain tests) has been a nerf to Dreads in all capacities.

I bet it was taken from the Blood Angels in regular games because a Furioso with Blood Talons assaulting on turn 1 is pretty lame.

Great Deceiver wrote:I bet it was taken from the Blood Angels in regular games because a Furioso with Blood Talons assaulting on turn 1 is pretty lame AWESOMESAUCE .

Fixed with the Orange Text