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Hi, completely new player here, trying to get my head around Warriors of Chaos. If I give a unit a Mark of Khorne, it gains frenzy. If that unit loses a combat (perish the thought...), does it lose frenzy as usual, or is it retained because it is a blessing of the gods?

I understand that High Elves retain ASF regardless of effects which would cancel it due to the ability being conferred by the gods, so wondered if the same applied here.

Many thanks, Nite

I think they lose it. The WoC army book says a model with the Mark of Khorne is subject to Frenzy. I didn't see anything saying that it never goes away so it probably works as normal and they lose it if they are defeated.

EDIT: I just checked the FAQ on GW's site... doesn't mention anything there about it.

Rules are rules. ASF is cancelled by ASL regardless of source. It has to specifically go out of its way and say something like, "no matter what any other rules says." There's literally a few instances in all of WHFB that do that. Like Acheron the special character's armor specifically supercedes the special rules of other units--that's extremely rare.

Frenzy isn't one of them. It's just a normal special rule and it behaves as stated in the BRB. It doesn't matter if a god gave it or a fuzzy mushroom.

DukeRustfield wrote:Rules are rules. ASF is cancelled by ASL regardless of source. It has to specifically go out of its way and say something like, "no matter what any other rules says." There's literally a few instances in all of WHFB that do that. Like Acheron the special character's armor specifically supercedes the special rules of other units--that's extremely rare.

Frenzy isn't one of them. It's just a normal special rule and it behaves as stated in the BRB. It doesn't matter if a god gave it or a fuzzy mushroom.

HE do go out of their way to specify that ASL does NOT cancel out Speed of Asuryan. All HE have ASF unless a spell or effect removes it that is caused by an enemy.

Swordmasters always strike first, regardless of their great weapons, and in most cases they reroll to hit as they have I6.

I'm looking at it right now. All it says is see the BRB to see how the special rule works. It says "regardless of the weapon they are wielding." But that doesn't mean if another ASL comes along (such as the Ogre Thundertusk) they won't get ASL. They will. It just means that Great Weapon ASL doesn't apply (or if some other weapon had something that made them non-ASL).

It's a specific exclusion to one instance. Not the ASL rule. And not because it came from gods or whatever.

Regardless, there is no similar exception for Frenzy and Chaos Warriors. They lose it like any other unit will.

And a good thing, too. They're deadly enough as it is.

DukeRustfield wrote:I'm looking at it right now. All it says is see the BRB to see how the special rule works. It says "regardless of the weapon they are wielding." But that doesn't mean if another ASL comes along (such as the Ogre Thundertusk) they won't get ASL. They will. It just means that Great Weapon ASL doesn't apply (or if some other weapon had something that made them non-ASL).

It's a specific exclusion to one instance. Not the ASL rule. And not because it came from gods or whatever.

That is what I meant: enemy effects or spells that cause ASL will cancel the ASF that HE have, which makes them strike by initiative(luckily it's pretty high).

Note that there's a banner in the WoC book that also gives Frenzy, and it specifically says they can't lose it. That argues to me that if they wanted MoK to give perma-frenzy, it would say so.

Thanks all. Interesting about the ASF too - it means the VC swarm can give HE ASL...

Malleus wrote:Note that there's a banner in the WoC book that also gives Frenzy, and it specifically says they can't lose it. That argues to me that if they wanted MoK to give perma-frenzy, it would say so.

I wanted to say that too.
This is basically your answer.
They'll lose it.

sebster wrote:Regardless, there is no similar exception for Frenzy and Chaos Warriors. They lose it like any other unit will.

Actually there is.
If a ridden monster gets the RAAARGH result it has unlooseable frenzy, so yea put your character on a dragon and have him die, after that hope.