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This is a bit of a discrepancy that came up in my last game...
I was playing my good friends Nids, his Hive Tyrant swept across the board into my deployment zone in the first turn. My forces backed up, and my CCB Lord charged in... the argument started over weather I had the HT "locked" in CC.
We all know that units cannot be locked in combat with vehicles, however, pg 82 "Fighting from a Chariot"..."The rider of the chariot is treated as being in BtB with all models that are in base contact with the chariot", at which point we defer to the usual cc rules, and resolve combat (initiative steps, etc..).
I claimed at the end of the combat, he was "locked " in CC with my Lord, according to the common cc rules, by default. On the same page (82) a barge has the option to leave combat, and my pal has argued that given he's in cc with a vehicle, he can break off...I countered that he's still in BtB with my Lord, his HT has the option to hit the CCB, or the Lord....... either way, short of death, the Lord is in BtB, and therefore "locked".
We resolved the issue amongst ourselves, but there's a bit of a fissure and I'd like to get the thoughts of Dakka...

Fire away, fellas! :

Your chariot is what kind of model again?

Answers there good sir. :3

Oh, and as far as the BtB deal, thats only for MSS and wound allocating in CC.

Hmmm, might actually have a point here actually. The rules say that the chariot and rider cannot be locked in combat. No exclusion is made for the model that the chariot is in contact with.
However, I note that there is mention that only the rider is treated as being in base contact with all the enemy models. The enemy models have no such treatment applied to them. So, when you check the enemy unit in its movement phase, there is no rule telling it that it is in base contact with anything.

Maybe.

I think its fair to say that the chariot does not lock in combat those units it is in base contact with. It's scary enough without being able to do that.

If you keep reading in the Fighting From a Chariot section the last sentence answers this debate without any "i thinks". "Note that, as a vehicle, the Chariot (and its rider, whilst embarked) cannot be locked in combat."

Agreed on those points...
However, that is my question. On pg. 82 in the "Fighting from a Chariot" it states that the rider, and target are considered to be in BtB. It then follows up that the chariot cannot be locked in CC. Is the fact that the chariot cant be locked in CC, passed to it's target, and therefore cannot lock an opponent? Or, given the fact that the rider, and target are considered to be in BtB, the normal CC rules (pg 23 "Who can fight" bolded) apply. It's obvious a chariot cannot be locked, but can it lock an opponent?
Or effectively, can a chariot dictate an assault, engaging, locking, and disengaging at will?

DeadlyFungi wrote: It's obvious a chariot cannot be locked, but can it lock an opponent?

Give an example where object A can be locked to object B while object B is not locked to object A, and you win the prize .

...and avoid relationships

That's why I have the question...RAW is unclear, and the chariot rule is new...

And that's a good one!

DeadlyFungi wrote:That's why I have the question...RAW is unclear, and the chariot rule is new...

And that's a good one!

Raw is not unclear, it cannot be done. Being in base contact with a model does not make it locked in combat. Being locked in combat makes it locked in combat.

Ahhh...I get it. My logical fallacy...if one can't be locked, neither can. I should've played that differently. Disembark, charge/challenge...

Captain Antivas wrote:[Being in base contact with a model does not make it locked in combat.

LOL, well actually it does,(pg 23) however with the chariots they make it clear that the chariot is a vehicle. Regardless of whether the rider is counted as in btb, you cannot be locked in combat with a non walker vehicle.

I'd also like to find out how the tyrant got into your deployment zone first turn without swooping. Certainly he didnt charge a swooping FMC...

Given that his Flyrant got to you in turn one, I gota ask; What was your overlord kitted with? I hope MSS was one of the options cause man, youll never see a Flyrant moving faster to get away from your chariot. XD

Tarrasq wrote:I'd also like to find out how the tyrant got into your deployment zone first turn without swooping. Certainly he didnt charge a swooping FMC...

This. You can't charge Swooping models.

Regardless of whether the rider is counted as in btb, you cannot be locked in combat with a non walker vehicle

The unit can be locked in combat with rider, though.

Give an example where object A can be locked to object B while object B is not locked to object A, and you win the prize

Titans?

No, with titans unless you are gargantuan combat ends at the end of the asault phase

The rider cannot be locked in combat, meaning neither can the charged target

Fragile wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:[Being in base contact with a model does not make it locked in combat.

LOL, well actually it does,(pg 23) however with the chariots they make it clear that the chariot is a vehicle. Regardless of whether the rider is counted as in btb, you cannot be locked in combat with a non walker vehicle.

I'm wrong (as in undeniably wrong not my opinion is different wrong) twice in one day? What is happening to me?