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TROOPS

170 (7 GH, rhino, melta, MOTW,standard)

235 (10 GH, rhino, 2 plasma, MOTW,standard,PA)

235 (10 GH, rhino, 2 plasma, MOTW,standard,PA)

120 (6 GH,melta, MOTW,standard)


HQ
200 = 2 runepriests (1 with runic weapon, bolt pistol) (1 with runic weapon, bolter)
145 = 1 wolfguard battle leader (PF,SS,runic armor)

ELITES
85 = LoneWolf (TDA, TH,ss)
104 = 1 WG naked for operaring the quad gun, 1 WG with PA, 1 WG with TDA,PF,SS

HEAVY SUPORT

130 5 longfangs (3ML,LC)

130 5 longfangs (3ML,LC)

95 5 longfangs (4HB)


FORTIFICATIONS

100 Aegis defense line (quad gun)



The WGBL, one runepriest and the PA WG will go with the first squad of GH to capture objectives and the two other

rhino squads will support them with plasma shots, the last GH squad will stay in the defence line along

with the HB longfangs (the other runepriest with divination goes with HB long fangs for rerolls).The wolfguard in

GH squad is for challenging the other characters. The other two squads of long fangs will be in the defence line

if they fit or in some area terrain to hammer the opponent.I think all the squads are cc capable with MOTW and standard

and also power axes (except for the last GH squad which has the PF wolf guard). The lone wolf is for attacking mostly

big MC and try to cause as much havoc as he can drawing my opponents attention from the more fragile units.

The naked wolfquard is for operating the quad gun.

Hi, looks pretty good, just a couple of points.

1. Rune Priests.

Which psychic powers do they have? The Space Wolves dex comes with some excellent psychic powers, so it's good to take advantage of them. That said, even if you do want to use the core powers from the rulebook every time, you still need to take 2 powers for each Rune Priest, this is because the way that the psychic powers generation works is that you can choose to swap each of your psychic powers for a randomly generated one before deployment, and you need powers to swap.

Secondly, I'd give one of them chooser of the slain, with the nerf to outflanking there could be a lot more infiltrating going on so a bit of infiltration defence is useful, plus that +1 BS is useful.

Finally, don't bother giving one a Bolter, go for the standard Bolt Pistol.

Second. Long Fangs.

The best way to go is generally considered full missile, but I personally go half and half. Therefore, go for 4 missile launchers, or 2 missile launchers and 2 Lascannons, as oppose to 3-1.

With the Heavy Bolter squad, I'd again go with the same template as the previous 2 squads here, Heavy Bolters aren't really all that good unfortunately, as they don't have enough shots to deal with hordes, their AP is too high to deal with more elite (power armoured) units, and they don't have a high enough strength to deal with vehicles.

Hope this is useful.

This is literally a carbon copy of a list I posted about 3 weeks ago on here(-250pts) I feel after reading the new brb it is a solid list. But there is one thought I had in all of this. 33% of missions you play either heavy or fast are scoring units. So I built a list that would give my long fangs enough Oomph! To push other squatters off the objectives(HB). And also gave them a master of runes. literally blow up objectives. Then added the beloved thunder wolf cavalry with wolf mounted battle leader. The heavy bolters are super cheap, and this gave me about 60 extra points to spend on thunder wolves. This was somewhere around 550 points for both units. We play at 2k and with the possibility to sit an objective while mobile long fangs lock a mid field clencher. Or thunder wolves beating the enemy back off of their own home objectives is just so "cinematic". But what I am saying is that diversifying your list in 6th will give you a resilient, COmpetitive edge. This is just my view on a few ideas to consider when list building cause you have four troops choices which I believe for power armor is plenty,but like I said a long fang unit in cover on an objective with a rune priest and mild support is a sick baby sitter. And possibly game winner if manouvered and done correctly


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P.s I do agree with the above post on the rune priest but with mor making him psyker level 2. I think I can take that. Divination primas power with those "weak" heavy bolters and we will see who gets hurt. They will hit 88% of shots moving on to wound 66% of time on Meq they will in turn save 66% of the time 13 out of 15 hit, 8 out of 13 wound, thusly they make 5 saves. Three dead marines cost anywhere from 54 on up to 80 pts. Depending on his equipment. That ain't bad considering what the rune priest will do with his other charge and with him they can even take a charge from an assault unit and make it out.

Warboss mrowl wrote:P.s I do agree with the above post on the rune priest but with mor making him psyker level 2. I think I can take that. Divination primas power with those "weak" heavy bolters and we will see who gets hurt. They will hit 88% of shots moving on to wound 66% of time on Meq they will in turn save 66% of the time 13 out of 15 hit, 8 out of 13 wound, thusly they make 5 saves. Three dead marines cost anywhere from 54 on up to 80 pts. Depending on his equipment. That ain't bad considering what the rune priest will do with his other charge and with him they can even take a charge from an assault unit and make it out.

Good point, I hadn't thought about using them with Divination Powers. That said, I'd still take a missile launcher on a Long Fang over a Heavy Bolter, pretty easily. In addition, 3 dead Grey Hunters cost 45pts (sorry, being padantic).

Also, you can take Psyker Level 2 on the Rune Priest if you want, it's mainly a personal preference thing and I personally can't justify spending 50pts on allowing your Rune Priest to cast both his psychic powers, especially when they may not both be useful in a given situation. It's half way to another Rune Priest.

I believe missle launchers to be the best choice but when sired by the same calculation you only kill two marines and spend double on weaponry. It is a cheap support/ objective grabber. I like em

Ok, so a missile launcher kills on average 2 marines then. So I'll just quickly run the maths on a Heavy Bolter vs Marines.

3 shots at BS4, 2 hits, wound on 3s. 1.3 wounds (rounded to 1), marine takes a save, likely passes it, but hey, I'll do it form the 1.3. 0.43 chance of wounding a marine with a heavy bolter, so with 4 heavy bolters you'll likely kill 1.72 marines. Missiles win.

Now, against hordes, let's say, you hit 4 Ork boyz with each blast (squads are big, even if you scatter you'll probably get a load). 16 hits, 8 wounds, 8 dead Orks. Heavy Bolter, 12 shots, 8 hits, 5.3 wounds, 5.3 dead Ork boyz. Missiles win.

Monstrous Creatures (the non-flying kind). Carnifex. Missiles, firing Krak, 2.6 hits, 2s to wound, 2.2 wounds, no save. Heavy Bolter, 8 hits, 5s to wound, 2.6 wounds, 3+ saves, 0.8 wounds. Missiles win.

Against Transports, Rhino, armour 11. Missiles, 2.6 hits, 2.2 hull points removed (so 2), lets say 1 penetrator. So, the Rhino loses 2 Hull Point and you get a roll on the vehicle damage table. Heavy Bolters, 8 hits, 6's to glance, 1.3 glances, so 1 hull point removed, no roll on vehicle damage table. Missiles win.

Heavy Armour (Land Raider) armour 14. Heavy Bolters can't hurt it, missiles have an outside chance of glancing it. Missiles win.

That was pretty comprehensive, sorry I'm a bit bored so I had to go the whole 9 yards and go against lots of different targets. I like Heavy Bolters, as they're so iconic, but the fact is that the missiles are better across the board. Yes, the margin of points efficiency isn't as great for the Missile Launcher when firing at infantry but it remains that they are infinately better than Heavy Bolters againts armour 12+.

I'd say the list is fairly solid. You still need to pick psychic powers for the Rune Priests, even if you plan on rolling with a BRB power. On the plus side that is free and just gives you more flexibility depending what you are facing.

Time will tell about the ADL, but I don't think its worth it personally. Too many problems with deployment (it goes before terrain, and then after terrain is setup don't you pick sides?) and even if you have it its only 2 wounds. Granted, T7 and 3+/4++ if its behind a wall, but if its a threat it'll be focused on. If its not a threat, it wasn't worth bringing really. You could use those 100 points to fill out the Long Fangs and that foot Grey Hunter squad (if its on foot why not max it out?).

Hey guys....You can use this excel file to get the skinny on HB's versus ML's. I too am a fan of the heavy bolter. Remember also that when facing Eldar or Necrons, the heavy bolter is AP4 and gimps them. Where as the frag missile is still only AP5. Here are some stats...

15 Heavy Bolter shots at BS4 against MEQ with no cover saves. You have

90.97% to cause AT LEAST 1 unsaved wound
67.43% to cause AT LEAST 2 unsaved wounds
38.77% to cause AT LEAST 3 unsaved wounds
17.17% to cause AT LEAST 4 unsaved wounds
5.90% to cause AT LEAST 5 unsaved wounds
1.59% to cause AT LEAST 6 unsaved wounds
0.34% to cause AT LEAST 7 unsaved wounds

If you get re-rolls from divination, then the stats are

96.32% to cause AT LEAST 1 unsaved wound
82.71% to cause AT LEAST 2 unsaved wounds
59.27% to cause AT LEAST 3 unsaved wounds
34.26% to cause AT LEAST 4 unsaved wounds
15.79% to cause AT LEAST 5 unsaved wounds
5.79% to cause AT LEAST 6 unsaved wounds
1.69% to cause AT LEAST 7 unsaved wounds

Compare this to 5 Krak Missile shots...Without re-rolls you have

98.27% to cause AT LEAST 1 unsaved wound
87.43% to cause AT LEAST 2 unsaved wounds
60.33% to cause AT LEAST 3 unsaved wounds
26.46% to cause AT LEAST 4 unsaved wounds
5.29% to cause AT LEAST 5 unsaved wounds

And with re-rolls you have

99.88% to cause AT LEAST 1 unsaved wound
98.21% to cause AT LEAST 2 unsaved wounds
88.65% to cause AT LEAST 3 unsaved wounds
61.33% to cause AT LEAST 4 unsaved wounds
22.30% to cause AT LEAST 5 unsaved wounds

EDIT : Thus 5 krak missiles perform marginally better than 15 Heavy Bolters against MEQ models (T4 and 3+ armor). However, I maintain the position that against armor saves of 4+ or worse, the 15 shots from Heavy Bolters are vastly superior. To show this, here is how 15 Heavy Bolter shots stack up against Toughness 4 with a 4+ armor and no cover.

Without Divination re-rolls
99.99% chance to cause AT LEAST 1 unsaved wound
99.81% chance to cause AT LEAST 2 unsaved wounds
98.81% chance to cause AT LEAST 3 unsaved wounds
95.36% chance to cause AT LEAST 4 unsaved wounds
87.07% chance to cause AT LEAST 5 unsaved wounds
72.49% chance to cause AT LEAST 6 unsaved wounds
53.04% chance to cause AT LEAST 7 unsaved wounds
33.04% chance to cause AT LEAST 8 unsaved wounds
17.03% chance to cause AT LEAST 9 unsaved wounds
7.08% chance to cause AT LEAST 10 unsaved wounds
2.30% chance to cause AT LEAST 11 unsaved wounds

With re-rolls, the heavy bolters have a 38.05% chance to cause at least 10 wounds and a 76.90% chance to cause at least 8. Say goodbye to your squad of Fire Warriors. The stats for krak missiles against this type of model are identical to the stats for Krak vs. MEQ.

CONCLUSION : If you expect to fight lots of MEQ, then take missiles. Otherwise, against Tau, Eldar, Necrons, Orks, or Nids, take at leas one unit of heavy bolters.

I think I will go with missiles since my local meta is power armor heavy and besides for two guard, two ork and a nid player. I am garunteed to come up against blood angels or grey knights eventually. My last tourney I faced(in this order) ultramarines, blood Angels, space wolves.

Wow it's getting really boring seeing all the anal retentives getting all excitedly asthmatic about "you officially haz to pick your wolf powers before you can swap them for divination, omgwtfbbq!!!" rules lawyer

Geez get over it - it makes no difference
You officially have to have power armour as standard on all your wolf guard before you can swap it for terminator armour, but no one ever complains that it wasn't written down in the list.


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Oh and those other 8 grey hunters all have a bolter and CCW. Make sure you write them down or you will be disqualified from playing warhammers

karlosovic wrote:Wow it's getting really boring seeing all the anal retentives getting all excitedly asthmatic about "you officially haz to pick your wolf powers before you can swap them for divination, omgwtfbbq!!!" rules lawyer

Geez get over it - it makes no difference
You officially have to have power armour as standard on all your wolf guard before you can swap it for terminator armour, but no one ever complains that it wasn't written down in the list.

Please grow up, do you really want to get caught out by a picky TO for the simple thing of not putting in your psychic powers that you'll be swapping out in your list? Seems to be a bit of a risk to be taking over something that will be taking you 5 seconds to do doesn't it. And your last sentence is rubbish as well, you don't swap power armour out for terminator armour pre-deployment, that IS something that you put in your list, psychic power declaration is not. How is it rules lawyering to just go that extra step to make ultra-sure that a TO won't catch you out with your list?

karlosovic wrote:Wow it's getting really boring seeing all the anal retentives getting all excitedly asthmatic about "you officially haz to pick your wolf powers before you can swap them for divination, omgwtfbbq!!!" rules lawyer

Geez get over it - it makes no difference
You officially have to have power armour as standard on all your wolf guard before you can swap it for terminator armour, but no one ever complains that it wasn't written down in the list.


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Oh and those other 8 grey hunters all have a bolter and CCW. Make sure you write them down or you will be disqualified from playing warhammers

In fact it's pretty simple.

If you'll write down Divination and nothing else a TO will just accept and understand that you'll rolls for casual powers in each game no matter what. Point.

This could be your choice but it isn't how thing should work normally.

Besides, following the correct method specifying ie LL+JOTWW and optionally Divination powers, you'll may use the SW codex powers if they will fit well vs the random tournament adversary OR, if more useful, decide to roll on Divination table.

Differently, without any choosen C:SW written in the list, you'll be forced to roll on Divination table. Even when a nasty LL+JOTWW combo would had been better for the actual opponent list.

It's just a logical thing to do for your own competitiveness before any other consideration. I really don't think a wise/logical/"it's just a game" TO will refuse your list, I do think however that he will respect your desires understanding you'll gonna roll each match on Divination table.

Simple and up to you.

EDIT: PS, wording this way wouldn't help you. To me no probs but in forums there are general rules to be respected. For the everyone's confort.

Indeed.

Tone it down a bit please, no need to insult other members who're providing good advice.
Thanks.

bah. This is what's wrong with the world.

I agree with you that it's not common sense, and usually if you're playing a pick up game with one of your mates, fine. But when you're going to a tournament, it is very unlikely that someone will disqualify you for something as minor as that, but for a 5 second job it's worth it. Plus, from a competitive standpoint, as Toban rightly says, you're going to want to get every advantage out of your list as you can, and there may be situations where the Space Wolf psychic powers would be more useful to you than a roll on the Divination chart.

Thnx a lot for feedback guys, i put bolter to one runepriest in order to have different wargear cause of the leaders of the pack rule the other non divination RP will get LL and JOWW . i could keep bolt pistol and runic weapon (ditch the bolter) and give one a chooser but ill have to drop the lascannons for plasma cannons in the long fangs what do you think? I ll let you know if i kick as

karlosovic wrote:Wow it's getting really boring seeing all the anal retentives getting all excitedly asthmatic about "you officially haz to pick your wolf powers before you can swap them for divination, omgwtfbbq!!!" rules lawyer

Geez get over it - it makes no difference
You officially have to have power armour as standard on all your wolf guard before you can swap it for terminator armour, but no one ever complains that it wasn't written down in the list.


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Oh and those other 8 grey hunters all have a bolter and CCW. Make sure you write them down or you will be disqualified from playing warhammers

FYI, the Wolf Guard are listed with Power Armor in the Codex. And with regards to the Grey Hunter wargear, you use what GW supplied you to guarantee legality in tourneys. Heck, GW tourneys usually have rules about what percent of the model is made out of Citadel models.

Anyways, missing the point. 1) If you are going to a tournament you need to bring a legal list. You don't want to get disqualified because of an anal retentive TO. And more importantly 2) all it does is give you more flexibility. Sometimes you'll want Codex powers. Vehicle/MC heavy list? I'll take an extra D6 S7 shots any day! Horde list? Maybe that Murderous Hurricane will come in handy...

More options for free is never a bad thing. There is a lot to be said about increased flexibility, and army lists in general tend to be better if they work more than one way. Its harder to "stop" a list that can go off multiple ways.