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For as long as I can remember, I have taken a minimum squad of 5 Nobs to romp around with my Warboss. My regular opponents are terrified of them, despite the fact that they've only made their points cost about 60% of the time...

So, here is my question:
In a 1100 pt list (awkward, I know, but it is a campaign), do I leave the Nobs at home and take myself another mob of 30 boys and throw the Warboss in with them?

If you are planning on getting in a challenge against someone who is allll allllone Take the boyz.

Rerolls out the wazoo..

I would try the boyz mob out, just to see if you like the effect. They will be individually less durable than the nobz, but the removal of No Retreat rules was good for boyz mobs

corey3977 wrote:For as long as I can remember, I have taken a minimum squad of 5 Nobs to romp around with my Warboss. My regular opponents are terrified of them, despite the fact that they've only made their points cost about 60% of the time...

So, here is my question:
In a 1100 pt list (awkward, I know, but it is a campaign), do I leave the Nobs at home and take myself another mob of 30 boys and throw the Warboss in with them?

Ah, the problem is that you are putting your nobz with your warboss. One of the pieces of ork wizdums is that nobz kill everything. Your warboss also kills everything. If you put your warboss with your nobz, the resulting unit kills everything twice. While overkill is fun and certain metal men even require to be killed twice, there is no strategic gain from doing so. So, simply put your warboss with boyz or another unit that can use his support (burnaz, for example), and have your nobz go off on their own.

Which leads to another strategic pitfall, using nobz. Unlike their more expensive cousins MANz and Biker Nobz, they still suffer from the same problems as in 5th. In short: A good battlecannon hit pulverizes them. Same for missile launchers, meltas, lances, lascannons and about any other anti-vehicle weapon out there, so they really need a transport to not get shot up before they get stuck in. At your point levels, putting them in a trukk and either reserving them or deploying them out of sight is probably your best option. The trukk can drive 24" right into the heart of your enemies army, where it will most likely turn into a huge ball of fire (maybe killing enemy soldiers), but protects your nobz until doing so. Alternatively, try to sneak around a flank and charge right from the trukk.
Targets for nobz are pretty much anything boyz can't handle. If your opponent has a good armor save and a lot of medium strenght attacks (S5 or lower), nobz are the orks for the job. Between 5++, FNP, WS5 and two powerklaws not much should survive their assault, the new FNP even made them quite good at handling some of the weaker monstrous creatures. Stay away from anything with S8+ attacks though, for the reasons stated above.

If your opponent has no units that your boyz have trouble taking down, feel free to switch them for boyz though. They are by no means a necessary part of an ork army.

I see what you are saying about the warboss with the Nobs. I actually planned to move the warboss into the unit of boys next game this week.

The reason I had for wanting to switch them was that the nobs haven't done alot the last 4 games I have played, but perhaps running them up a flank or something in a trukk would be an idea.

The issue is you need the nobs to target the right part of the enemy to really prove their worth.
Battlewagons and trukks are little less reliable than can be desired whereas bikes make them super awesome.

Hate to be the first to mention them on a thread but nob bikers for the win.

My concern is always taking enough nob bikers to make them worth it. Especially at the points total I have: 1100

How are you taking these guys? Bikers or as regular nobs in a battlewagon or something?

The big reason(IMO) for the warboss in the unit is A. Challenges, and B. Leadership. Leadership 7 without the mob rule is awefulness

Jidmah wrote:

corey3977 wrote:For as long as I can remember, I have taken a minimum squad of 5 Nobs to romp around with my Warboss. My regular opponents are terrified of them, despite the fact that they've only made their points cost about 60% of the time...

So, here is my question:
In a 1100 pt list (awkward, I know, but it is a campaign), do I leave the Nobs at home and take myself another mob of 30 boys and throw the Warboss in with them?

Ah, the problem is that you are putting your nobz with your warboss. One of the pieces of ork wizdums is that nobz kill everything. Your warboss also kills everything. If you put your warboss with your nobz, the resulting unit kills everything twice. While overkill is fun and certain metal men even require to be killed twice, there is no strategic gain from doing so. So, simply put your warboss with boyz or another unit that can use his support (burnaz, for example), and have your nobz go off on their own.

Which leads to another strategic pitfall, using nobz. Unlike their more expensive cousins MANz and Biker Nobz, they still suffer from the same problems as in 5th. In short: A good battlecannon hit pulverizes them. Same for missile launchers, meltas, lances, lascannons and about any other anti-vehicle weapon out there, so they really need a transport to not get shot up before they get stuck in. At your point levels, putting them in a trukk and either reserving them or deploying them out of sight is probably your best option. The trukk can drive 24" right into the heart of your enemies army, where it will most likely turn into a huge ball of fire (maybe killing enemy soldiers), but protects your nobz until doing so. Alternatively, try to sneak around a flank and charge right from the trukk.
Targets for nobz are pretty much anything boyz can't handle. If your opponent has a good armor save and a lot of medium strenght attacks (S5 or lower), nobz are the orks for the job. Between 5++, FNP, WS5 and two powerklaws not much should survive their assault, the new FNP even made them quite good at handling some of the weaker monstrous creatures. Stay away from anything with S8+ attacks though, for the reasons stated above.

If your opponent has no units that your boyz have trouble taking down, feel free to switch them for boyz though. They are by no means a necessary part of an ork army.

Jidmah, When you choose to run MANZ, what provides the bosspole for the fellars? I have been putting a mega boss there, but overkill like you say... when I can run 2 FOC's I will sometimes put the mad dok with them (awesome for killiness, major suckage for tactics)... so considering running a mega mek or KFF mek with them for 2k+ games instead of dok?

Usually in games under 2k I try to take 2 warbosses, 1 in mega armor to keep MANZ in line, and a biker boss for t6 and put him with nob bikers till he can break off and do his own thing, or put him with outflanking deffkoptas

I'm a big fan of Nobz+Warboss, yes, you can overkill, but he can also multi assault (gasp, I know, no bonus for charging or FC) but hear me out, it's all about NOT totally over killing and getting stuck in on your charge move anyways.

At 1500-2K I run this:

Warboss
Cybork
PK
BP
Eavy Armor
Attack squig (if I have the points to spare)

Nobz
All with EA and Cybork (though with LoS I'm considering going with more "naked" nobz to save 20 or 30 points"

Painboy
1 regular
2 x big choopa
2x Power Klaw

This unit has crazy synergy on the board. The WB can eat everything up to S10 and they will win basically any combat they run in to. He is also key for challenge shinanigans and the LD9 with a re-roll is key for the Nobz.

I'm going to be upping the anti and running them as Nob Bikers, cost is a bit higher than the above unit in a battlewagon but the advantage of T5 with 4+ cover and greater mobility is huge.

Nobz can get a boss pole, leadership 7 with a reroll is roughly equivalent to ld9.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

skyfi wrote:Jidmah, When you choose to run MANZ, what provides the bosspole for the fellars? I have been putting a mega boss there, but overkill like you say... when I can run 2 FOC's I will sometimes put the mad dok with them (awesome for killiness, major suckage for tactics)... so considering running a mega mek or KFF mek with them for 2k+ games instead of dok?

Usually in games under 2k I try to take 2 warbosses, 1 in mega armor to keep MANZ in line, and a biker boss for t6 and put him with nob bikers till he can break off and do his own thing, or put him with outflanking deffkoptas

Well, when you got that HQ slot to spare simply put a MA boss with them. A mek is only 25 points cheaper than a warboss, but they are way worse in close combat. Especially the differences between WS5 and 4, as well as T5 and 4 are so great, that those two alone are already worth 25 points. The extra attack, wound and the higher initiative for sweeping are just a nice bonus. You simply have to account for the warboss when buying the unit. If you had spend about 320 points on regular nobz, spend no more than 320 on MANz+MA Warboss. I used to do the same for nob biker units when they still required a warboss to catch missiles for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

More Dakka wrote:I'm a big fan of Nobz+Warboss, yes, you can overkill, but he can also multi assault (gasp, I know, no bonus for charging or FC) but hear me out, it's all about NOT totally over killing and getting stuck in on your charge move anyways.

At 1500-2K I run this:

Warboss
Cybork
PK
BP
Eavy Armor
Attack squig (if I have the points to spare)

Nobz
All with EA and Cybork (though with LoS I'm considering going with more "naked" nobz to save 20 or 30 points"

Painboy
1 regular
2 x big choopa
2x Power Klaw

This unit has crazy synergy on the board. The WB can eat everything up to S10 and they will win basically any combat they run in to. He is also key for challenge shinanigans and the LD9 with a re-roll is key for the Nobz.

I'm going to be upping the anti and running them as Nob Bikers, cost is a bit higher than the above unit in a battlewagon but the advantage of T5 with 4+ cover and greater mobility is huge.

Rather than multi-charging, why not unattach the warboss, have him fight one unit by himself, and get the nobz to help him afterwards? Especially a warbiker warboss can walk through a regular space marines with no problem. If you issue a challenge the only dangerous guy can chose between not fighting and getting hulk-smashed.

i take a boss with HA, and attach it to the MANZ if need be. if he is in the unit, he doesnt really need the MA. also, it gives me flexibility to attach him to another unit if needed.

A powerklaw and 'eavy armor are already 30 points, MA also includes a TL shoota, so you are pretty much paying 5 points to upgrade from 4+ to 2+- Any other codex would murder for such an upgrade.

true, but the removal of the overwatch reaction in case i want to put him in a boys unit is not worth it to me.

Jidmah wrote:

Rather than multi-charging, why not unattach the warboss, have him fight one unit by himself, and get the nobz to help him afterwards? Especially a warbiker warboss can walk through a regular space marines with no problem. If you issue a challenge the only dangerous guy can chose between not fighting and getting hulk-smashed.

Because he loses FNP if I do this, also he will typically be challenging a higher level IC to avoid getting challenge-baited by a cheap sgt or the likes.

WB with a mob of Boyz has never netted me great results, WB with Nobz has been a wrecking ball that has served me well through both 5th and 6th editions so far.

I agree on splitting your boss off and having him assault units on his own (Im talking biker boss of course) Using the challenges rule you can REALLY prolong his life. I did that in my last game against a 10man assault squad lead by an assault Chaplain. Guess who won that one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

More Dakka wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

Rather than multi-charging, why not unattach the warboss, have him fight one unit by himself, and get the nobz to help him afterwards? Especially a warbiker warboss can walk through a regular space marines with no problem. If you issue a challenge the only dangerous guy can chose between not fighting and getting hulk-smashed.

Because he loses FNP if I do this, also he will typically be challenging a higher level IC to avoid getting challenge-baited by a cheap sgt or the likes.

WB with a mob of Boyz has never netted me great results, WB with Nobz has been a wrecking ball that has served me well through both 5th and 6th editions so far.

I might be misunderstanding what your getting at, but you cannot choose who accepts your challenge, you can only issue a challenge and then see who accepts. So if you charge a unit that has say a sgt and a captain, you can only issue a challenge. The smart player would probably use the sgt. to accept letting the Captain do his thing in CC.

You get to pick who can't fight if they chicken out though. So there are three options:

1) They refuse the challenge. Captain does not get to fight, warboss proceeds to smash the marines into the ground.

2) Captain accepts. Your warboss kills the captain, most likely gaining a VP for killing the opponent's warlord, everyone else sits back. They are very likely to lose combat to this and then attempt to fall back to shoot your warboss. I4 is a 50% chance to catch them.

3) The sergeant accepts. Warboss smashes sergeant into the ground, no one else can harm him. Next turn warboss can challenge the captain and either proceeds to 1) or 2). The nobz should then be done with their fight and help cleaning up.

As you can see, 2) isn't that awesome. So charge your nobz into the unit sporting the IC and have your Warboss crush some other unit. Getting baited is even better for you, as your opponent can't shoot your warboss during his turn.

Yes but thats how pretty much all challenges go when your talking a unit with more then 1 in it. Sweeping advances are a rare thing with Orks, I very rarely get to sweep an assault. Winning assaults is easy I do that on a regular basis, but with our low initiative, sweeps hardly happen So Ive felt bolter fire from not sweeping many times. Sometimes I think the Space Marine ATSKNF rule is a bit over the top

Yup, ATSKNF is a bit too awesome now, especially when combined with combat tactics. Being able to sweep/catch them with our highest initiative is a nice buff though.

go with the boys