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Last checks for this list. I still need to complete painting on a lot of things and I would like to deploy everything painted as I alwais do.

5 games between saturday and sunday, random missions/deployments, special terrains and objectives allowed.

500 pts max of allied detachments, only one special character allowed. Or in the primary detachment OR in the Allied detachment if brother in arms.
No custom restrictions regarding double FOCs.

So, here the list. I wrote it down as each unit will be composed, hope this will help reading correctly the setup:

HQ - Rune Priest - Runic Armor - Divination Powers. 120 [Warlord]
TR - 7x GH - Meltagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 195
.......- WG - Power Sword - Combi-melta. 33

TR - 7x GH - Plasmagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 200
.......- WG - Power Sword - Combi-plasma. 33

TR - 7x GH - Plasmagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 200
.......- WG - Power Sword - Combi-plasma. 33

TR - 10x GH - 2x Plasmaguns. 160

EL - Wolf Guard - naked. 18
Extra: Aegis Def. Line - Quad Gun. 100

FA - 3x Thunderwolves - 1x SS. 180

HQ - Rune Priest - Storm Bolter - Divination Powers. 103
HV - 6x LF - 5x HB. 115

HV - 6x LF - 5x ML. 140

HV - 6x LF - 5x ML. 140

HV - Vindicator. 115

HV - Vindicator. 115

Tot. 2000

I hope the setup sounds clear to everyone. Obviously the naked WG will control the Quad Gun. this way if the enemy will target the turret weapon wouldn't target in the same time my troop unit.

I'm not completly sold on the little, not particulary well tooled, TWC unit. Of course this list need a tarpitter/counter attack unit but I'm not sure that TWC could be the only possibility.

Any idea about it?


EDIT: thinking seriously to drop the Long Fangs with Heavy Bolters. Even if I adore them to clean up incoming units (and even if they fit particulary well with a lot of the Divination powers the RP may pick) I'm really in need of pts for my little CC composition of the list. Anyway, freeing the Rune Priest, I'll may join him to a ML unit and direct the Prescience power (Divination primaris) on one of the LFs units. Depending on oppotunity targets.

Hi just a couple of small things.

The first is just a rules heads up, it's a common misconception when it comes to psykers. In order to get psychic powers from the core rulebook you have to swap them for powers that have already been given to the psyker in question. Therefore, you still need to give him psychic powers. If you're planning on going for divination every game it doesn't matter which ones you give him but you do still have to do it. This is to stop Eldar players, etc saving points by simply declaring in their list that they'll be going for a certain discipline every game. It's just taking every step possible to make sure that the TO doesn't complain about the list really.

I think I'd agree with you on the HB Long Fangs, then you can pump more points into the Thunderwolves and give the 10 man GH squad a Wolf Banner. I'd also drop the Storm Bolter off the Rune Priest, IIRC his Force Axe doesn't count as a specialist CC weapon so you can still get the extra attack for dual CC weapons.

Thank you for the reply.

Of course, writing Divination Powers it means that I will roll before each game 2 power from the correspondent chart. Obviously for each RP. I don't see the need to write 2 casual powers taken from the SW codex when in fact I will exchange them for the Divination discipline.
I do perfectly understand it for Tervigons, GK Librarians etc.. characters that may/have to buy powers and so, even just to clarify the total amount of them, they may be forced to declare them in a tournament list. I mean, writing "3x biomancy powers" for a Tervigon ie would be enough clear to me.

HBs are definitively ready to go, unfortunately.

I don't see the reason to give a banner at the 10x footslogging GHs unit. Do you mean about the rerolls in snap fire maybe?

The Storm Bolter is there for 2 reasons. Unfortunately.

1) to reach the 2000 pts and so be able to profit of the double FOC. Even if only for the LFs/Vindicators combo.
2) to give different weapons at the 2 Rune Priests. It doesn't matter what kind of force weapon is wielding, it will still give him a force weapon+bolt pistol combo. So I need a different tool.
At least this is our interpretation of this rule in here.

Toban wrote:I don't see the need to write 2 casual powers taken from the SW codex when in fact I will exchange them for the Divination discipline.

I know, but it's just making sure that everything's completely legit in case you get a TO who is really picky about peoples lists. Plus, you could go for something that is really siuational and if the ideal situation for it comes up you may decide not to swap it out for a Divination power.

Toban wrote:I don't see the reason to give a banner at the 10x footslogging GHs unit. Do you mean about the rerolls in snap fire maybe?

Sort of, just a nifty little boost in close combat, when you have 10 Grey Hunters with a passed counter attack roll swinging with re-rolls to 1s it can be pretty fearsome. For 10pts it's useful if you end up in a situation were you are in or want to initiate an assault.

Toban wrote:2) to give different weapons at the 2 Rune Priests. It doesn't matter what kind of force weapon is wielding, it will still give him a force weapon+bolt pistol combo. So I need a different tool.
At least this is our interpretation of this rule in here.

Of course, completely forgot about that. Why not give one of them a Chooser of the Slain instead using some of the points from the HB Long Fangs?

Rampage wrote:

Toban wrote:I don't see the need to write 2 casual powers taken from the SW codex when in fact I will exchange them for the Divination discipline.

I know, but it's just making sure that everything's completely legit in case you get a TO who is really picky about peoples lists. Plus, you could go for something that is really siuational and if the ideal situation for it comes up you may decide not to swap it out for a Divination power.

This. For your list to be legal for the tournament you still have to make the mandatory selections. You just get an option prior to deployment to swap out powers. You still have to take the originals.

Which isn't a big deal for SW. Its free for us. So LL/MH and LL/TW just for grins I'd say. Then swap out for Divination in the games where it makes sense.

Rampage wrote:

Toban wrote:I don't see the reason to give a banner at the 10x footslogging GHs unit. Do you mean about the rerolls in snap fire maybe?

Sort of, just a nifty little boost in close combat, when you have 10 Grey Hunters with a passed counter attack roll swinging with re-rolls to 1s it can be pretty fearsome. For 10pts it's useful if you end up in a situation were you are in or want to initiate an assault.

Wolf Standards are always worth it in squads of 8 or more. Once you get below that it tends to lose some of its luster, but its subtly powerful. I'd never consider not taking one. Them being on foot doesn't really matter in the decision either. Chances are they will see combat against some lists.

Rampage wrote:

Toban wrote:2) to give different weapons at the 2 Rune Priests. It doesn't matter what kind of force weapon is wielding, it will still give him a force weapon+bolt pistol combo. So I need a different tool.
At least this is our interpretation of this rule in here.

Of course, completely forgot about that. Why not give one of them a Chooser of the Slain instead using some of the points from the HB Long Fangs?

Choosers are excellent. If you have 2 Rune Priests its hard to pass one up. You could also save 3 points by just taking a Bolter for free instead of the Bolt Pistol.


Overall the list seems pretty solid. I'd be surprised if the lone Wolf Guard and Battery do anything, and it kind of sucks you can only move 6" and fire the Vindicator instead of being able to move 12". But first turn full speed with smoke with the Rhinos right behind and you should have one Vindicator at least able to fire.

Your Thunderwolves will be okay. While S10 is nice, Fists/Hammers aren't required for anything other than Land Raiders. S5 will help you enough typically against MCs. Most walkers are AV12 so your large amount of Rending attacks should be able to take them down with auto-glances. With all those vehicles it will be easy enough to keep the Thunderwolves protected until you need them.

Just don't throw them at death stars and hard combat units. They just don't have the numbers to be able to last against those kinds of units.

I thank you all for the useful tips.

In the meantime however, as alwais happens when I fall deep in lists building, I modified strongly the list.

HQ - Rune Priest - SC+LL or Divination Powers. 100 [Warlord]
TR - 7x Grey Hunters - Meltagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 195
- Wolf Guard - Power Sword - Combi-melta. 33

TR - 7x Grey Hunters - Plasmagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 200
- Wolf Guard - Power Sword - Combi-plasma. 33

TR - 7x Grey Hunters - Plasmagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 200
- Wolf Guard - Power Sword - Combi-plasma. 33

TR - 5x Grey Hunters - Flamer. 75

EL - Wolf Guard - TDA. 33
Aegis Defence Line - Quad Gun. 100

EL - Iron Priest - TW mount - Saga of the Iron Wolf - WTN - 4x Cyberwolves. 185

FA - 3x Thunderwolves - 1x SS - 1x PF - naked. 205

HQ - Rune Priest - Storm Bolter - LL+MH or Divination Powers. 103
HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers. 140

HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers. 140

HV - Vindicator. 115

HV - Vindicator. 115
Tot. 2000

I'm pretty sure about the first list but hey.. why not. What do you think about this last setup?

Minor things:
The ADL Quad gun. Why not put some LFs in it and give the WG for a more useful assignment elsewhere?

When an enemy flyer shows up, you shoot it on their turn (Interceptor). On your next turn you fire your LFs as normal because the gun has to be quiet. After that the quadgun's STR is pretty much the same as the MLs so fire it all at the same target (or use Fire Control and skip the shots).

PFs - why not put them on the Wolf Guard, so each PF gets an extra swing? For less points than it cost the Grey Hunter?

IMHO I would keep the HB Long Fangs. They can still move and snap fire and are a good multi- purpose unit.

Are the Wolf Guard in each GH unit really worth it? You already have a Power Fist and MOTW. You could have 2 extra men instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, liking the Iron Priest instead.

Brothererekose wrote:Minor things:
The ADL Quad gun. Why not put some LFs in it and give the WG for a more useful assignment elsewhere?

Do you mean at one Long Fang gunner?

Brothererekose wrote:When an enemy flyer shows up, you shoot it on their turn (Interceptor). On your next turn you fire your LFs as normal because the gun has to be quiet. After that the quadgun's STR is pretty much the same as the MLs so fire it all at the same target (or use Fire Control and skip the shots).

Do you mean to put a Long Fang Gunner equipped with ML (ie) manouvring the Quad Gun? Using it only in case of flyers and then use his regular weapon during other turns?
Does it is possible? Never thought about it. I don't consider, however, this as a wise tactic because you'll have to choose between the ML and the Quad Gun in regular turns. A shame if you ask me.

Brothererekose wrote:PFs - why not put them on the Wolf Guard, so each PF gets an extra swing? For less points than it cost the Grey Hunter?

For challenges issues.
If I will be assaulted by an enemy unit that include an IC, I will challenge it with the Wolf Guard.
This way not only I will give a little breath to the rest of my team but I'll may fight at regular I instead of get cutted to pieces before trying the PFs attacks (considering the changes to Furious Charge and the usual xenos unavailability of grenades this could be particulary important).
This way, the rest of the team will be able to profit of this PF, even if less effective regarding the number of attacks.

Here's a little thing...about your GH squads. You've given the power fist to the squad and the power sword to the WG model. Was this was intentional because you want I4 during challenges? I only ask because the WG would have more attacks with the power fist, while the squad's MotW can already get AP2 (sometimes) from rending. I could see it if you gave the WG a pistol so that he could get an extra attack with the sword, but you've given him a combi so you might as well be swinging a fist. Plus, it might be cheaper to give the fist to the WG.

Next thing ... Did you double check with the tournament that you can use two FOC's? Because it they say no, then you've got too many heavy slots.

About the Iron priest...Why is he on a thunderwolf? If you want to repair rhinos and vindicators you should either put him inside a rhino or right behind a vindicator and out of LOS. In that case, you should take thralls instead of cyberwolves. On the other hand, if you want him to get into close combat with that thunderwolf, then a WGBL does a better job. Either way, he does NOT need a WTN.

Otherwise, my only other comment is a matter of taste. I would rather have another unit of grey hunters for 205 points instead of the TWC. This is just because Grey Hunters can make themselves useful during shooting and both charging and counter-attacking and they are a scoring unit. Conversely, TWC are only going to pay for themselves in close combat. They have to survive long enough to get there though and overwatch is a bitch.

Toban wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:Minor things:
The ADL Quad gun. Why not put some LFs in it and give the WG for a more useful assignment elsewhere?

Do you mean at one Long Fang gunner?

No. I'd rather give him a Frost toy and assist some GHs in h2h fun.

Brothererekose wrote:When an enemy flyer shows up, you shoot it on their turn (Interceptor). On your next turn you fire your LFs as normal because the gun has to be quiet. After that the quadgun's STR is pretty much the same as the MLs so fire it all at the same target (or use Fire Control and skip the shots).

Toban wrote:Do you mean to put a Long Fang Gunner equipped with ML (ie) manouvring the Quad Gun?

No, the 6th bolter wielding Long Fang mans the Quad Gun.

Toban wrote: Using it only in case of flyers and then use his regular weapon during other turns?

Yes, but since he's the bolter guy, he can either direct Fire Control or shoot the Quad Gun (if it hadn't used Interceptor the turn before, as per its rules).

Toban wrote:Does it is possible?

Two games so far with reasonably good results.

Toban wrote: Never thought about it. I don't consider, however, this as a wise tactic because you'll have to choose between the ML and the Quad Gun in regular turns. A shame if you ask me.

No, not an ML, LF, but the bolter guy. And the 'choice' between MLs and Quads? They're one STR within each each, so able to bang rhinos and troops with equal ease.

Brothererekose wrote:PFs - why not put them on the Wolf Guard, so each PF gets an extra swing? For less points than it cost the Grey Hunter?

Toban wrote:For challenges issues. If I will be assaulted by an enemy unit that include an IC, I will challenge it with the Wolf Guard. This way not only I will give a little breath to the rest of my team but I'll may fight at regular I instead of get cutted to pieces before trying the PFs attacks (considering the changes to Furious Charge and the usual xenos unavailability of grenades this could be particulary important).
This way, the rest of the team will be able to profit of this PF, even if less effective regarding the number of attacks.

I see your point. Consider having the WG as a Termi, with SS and Frost Blade. Normal Init, T-Armor, and 3++.

Yoda's voice: Filthy it is, Have no more friends, you won't.

So many thing to say here..

Grugknuckle wrote:Here's a little thing...about your GH squads. You've given the power fist to the squad and the power sword to the WG model. Was this was intentional because you want I4 during challenges? I only ask because the WG would have more attacks with the power fist, while the squad's MotW can already get AP2 (sometimes) from rending. I could see it if you gave the WG a pistol so that he could get an extra attack with the sword, but you've given him a combi so you might as well be swinging a fist. Plus, it might be cheaper to give the fist to the WG.

Surely the PF/combi or the PSword/pistol would be the perfects setups for the Wolf Guards. However in both cases I will lose something.
The combi on a PF Wolf Guard would be immediately lost at the first challenge. I'll may refuse a challenge or don't call for it but in this case most probably my entire unit would be broken.
I considered to replace the combi with a plasma pistol in the plasma rhinoed unit but there will be pproblems of different ranges. I don't like this.

I'm not trying to say that this is the best solution, I do think however that it is a useful compromise. Play testing will confirm eventually.

Grugknuckle wrote:Next thing ... Did you double check with the tournament that you can use two FOC's? Because it they say no, then you've got too many heavy slots.

OF course yes.

Grugknuckle wrote:About the Iron priest...Why is he on a thunderwolf? If you want to repair rhinos and vindicators you should either put him inside a rhino or right behind a vindicator and out of LOS. In that case, you should take thralls instead of cyberwolves. On the other hand, if you want him to get into close combat with that thunderwolf, then a WGBL does a better job. Either way, he does NOT need a WTN.

He is on Thunderwolf for:
1) the various bonuses on T/ST/Attacks. If coupled with the ablative Cyberwolves let he become pretty badass. 5x ST10 Attacks? One of them would even ignore armor saves ov any kind (the SW servo arm version hasn't be FAQed and I didn't found anything about it on the brb).
2) To let him not only follow the Rhino+Vindicators wall staying in cover but also keep the extra movement to come back vs my ADL if necessary. (same argument for TWC)
3) Eventually try to repair a weapon destroyed/immobilised result on Vindicators. With the Ironwolf Saga he will be able to help with a 4+. I know, 50% isn't very encouraging but it isn't bad at all to be honest.

I don't want him to be my leader or my CC machine. Let me call it as a multi-purpose character. He will act as counter-charger in help of TWC and vice-versa. He will eventually help in occasional repair rolls. He will be able to hunt devastators and the like just like TWC will do. With 2 Vindicators the opponent will often spread his army and with the TWC on one side and the Iron Priest in the other I'll may eventually be able to manage different targets. Not to mention that it's really a cool model ;D WTN is there for occasional high WS characters not equipped with AP2 power weapons. It's a long list now a days.

Grugknuckle wrote:Otherwise, my only other comment is a matter of taste. I would rather have another unit of grey hunters for 205 points instead of the TWC. This is just because Grey Hunters can make themselves useful during shooting and both charging and counter-attacking and they are a scoring unit. Conversely, TWC are only going to pay for themselves in close combat. They have to survive long enough to get there though and overwatch is a bitch.

As you pointed out is a matter of taste. I do quitely agree with your suggestion but in the same time I feel a costant need of higher impacts in CC. Something that even a complete GH sq can do only partially if in comparison with TWC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brothererekose wrote:

Toban wrote:Does it is possible?

Two games so far with reasonably good results.

I have to try it.

Brothererekose wrote:I see your point. Consider having the WG as a Termi, with SS and Frost Blade. Normal Init, T-Armor, and 3++.

I do this in my Drop Pod list. Pretty effective.
Impossible however in Rhino lists. Yeah, of course, I may do this for the footsloggers but I have no pts.

Brothererekose wrote:Yoda's voice: Filthy it is, Have no more friends, you won't.

So say we all.

Toban wrote:
Surely the PF/combi or the PSword/pistol would be the perfects setups for the Wolf Guards. However in both cases I will lose something.
The combi on a PF Wolf Guard would be immediately lost at the first challenge. I'll may refuse a challenge or don't call for it but in this case most probably my entire unit would be broken.

Or your grey hunters could just avoid close combat with characters. You have the TWC after all. Aren't they going to be looking for a fight? You don't have to make all of your squads close combat bad-asses.

I considered to replace the combi with a plasma pistol in the plasma rhinoed unit but there will be pproblems of different ranges. I don't like this.

15 points for a PP vs. 5 pts for a combi? Take the combi - no question.

I really think you should reconsider the Iron Priest. Frankly, I would lose the Thunderwolf, exchange the cyberwolves for four thralls with heavy weapons give a rhino to your 5 man GH squad and join that squad. Or ditch him completely and get something else for your 185 points (one hundred eighty five!). You could get another GH squad or more TWC if you still want more assault units. Even a unit of attack bikes with MM's. There's lots of stuff that will give you more bang for the buck.

EDIT : Of course I realize that with the tourney being on Saturday it's way too late to be adding new units unless you already have mini's.

I have a discret collection of models and, even if I hate to do this in official happenings, I'll may eventually prox Servitors.


Anyway I'm not considering to take a Techmarine like just to take care of vehicles. With the new hp rules we would need 1 Iron Priest for each damned vehicle deployed on the field.

Honestly it has been a funny test but to stay serious and competitive down here what I decided to take for the tournament.

HQ - Runic Priest - Storm Caller and LL or Divination Powers. 100 [Warlord]
TR - 8x Grey Hunters - Meltagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 210
TR - Wolf Guard - Power Sword - Combi-melta. 33

TR - 8x Grey Hunters - Plasmagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 215
TR - Wolf Guard - Power Sword - Combi-plasma. 33

TR - 8x Grey Hunters - Plasmagun - Standard - MOTW - PF - Rhino. 215
TR - Wolf Guard - Power Sword - Combi-plasma. 33

TR - 10x Grey Hunters - 2x Plasmaguns - Standard. 170
TR - Wolf Guard - naked. 18
Extra - Aegis Defence line - Quad Gun. 100

FA - 4x Thunderwolves - 2x SS - 2x Naked. 260

HQ - Rune Priest - Storm Bolter - LL and MH or Divination Powers. 103
HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers. 140

HV - 6x Long Fangs - 5x Missile Launchers. 140

HV - Vindicator. 115
HV - Vindicator. 115

Tot. 2000

Unfortunately the same "storm bolter" problems but really I need to get at 2k for the double FOC.

It think this one is a pretty good list.

I still think that 260 points is too much for the cavalry, but meh...I'm probably the only one on Dakka who doesn't like them.

Grugknuckle wrote:It think this one is a pretty good list.

I still think that 260 points is too much for the cavalry, but meh...I'm probably the only one on Dakka who doesn't like them.

Nope, I don't like them either. 260pts for 8 wounds at T5 is too much for me, no matter their save, but I can see why people like them. And I agree, looks like a solid list.

It's often shocking seein' how pricy a TWC unit may be but there is anything else in the codex that could take their place? With high movement - high T - good ST and CC bonuses (rending) with lot of attacks? Mmm, no. I don't think so.

I wouldn't change a thing. I would have a hard time fighting this list as Thousand Sons, even with new flamers and screamers.

Rampage wrote:

Toban wrote:2) to give different weapons at the 2 Rune Priests. It doesn't matter what kind of force weapon is wielding, it will still give him a force weapon+bolt pistol combo. So I need a different tool.
At least this is our interpretation of this rule in here.

Of course, completely forgot about that. Why not give one of them a Chooser of the Slain instead using some of the points from the HB Long Fangs?

The (Warlord) Runepriest in the original list actually had Runic Armour - which is enough to satisfy the wargear combination rule
I notice it disappeared from later versions of your list though

Yes, in this last list I needed the pts elsewhere.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/466903.page#4603921

The 3 pts however aren't there to make the RPs different but more to reach the 2000 pts total for the double FOC.

karlosovic wrote:

Rampage wrote:

Toban wrote:2) to give different weapons at the 2 Rune Priests. It doesn't matter what kind of force weapon is wielding, it will still give him a force weapon+bolt pistol combo. So I need a different tool.
At least this is our interpretation of this rule in here.

Of course, completely forgot about that. Why not give one of them a Chooser of the Slain instead using some of the points from the HB Long Fangs?

The (Warlord) Runepriest in the original list actually had Runic Armour - which is enough to satisfy the wargear combination rule
I notice it disappeared from later versions of your list though

Yeah, I momentarily forgot about the 'must have different wargear' rule. .

Toban wrote:It's often shocking seein' how pricy a TWC unit may be but there is anything else in the codex that could take their place? With high movement - high T - good ST and CC bonuses (rending) with lot of attacks? Mmm, no. I don't think so.

It's just that getting into CC in the first place is harder in 6th. Not impossible of course and everyone can see that the TWC will pay off if they get there. It's just that you don't need to have a devastating CC unit at all. They're nice to have, but not necessary and boy they sure are a juicy target for plasma.