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So here is my current 2k point list:

HQ:
Rune Priest w/ Runic armor, Space Bike, Master of Runes, (giving him divination and biomancy powers) .205 points

Wolf Lords w/ Space Bike, Belt of Russ, Frost Sword, Wolf Claw, Saga of the Warrior Born .240 points

Troops:
10 Grey hunters w/ Flamer, Plasma gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard . 175 Points

10 Grey hunters w/ Flamer, Plasma gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod . 210 Points

07 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod .170 Points

05 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod . 175 Points

05 Grey hunters w/ Plasma gun .85 points

Elites:
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Sword, Storm Bolter, Cyclone Missile Launcher
Wolf Gaurd w/ Space Bike, Power Axe .225 points total

Fast Attack:
10 Swiftclaw Biker Pack w/ Power Sword .265 points

Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs w/ 2 Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers .170 points

5 Long Fangs w/ 4 Missile Launchers .115points

The list has been working pretty well So far, but as far as turny play
Tell me your thoughts/concerns?

How do you run the termies? footslogging squad? Not sure how great they seem as a squad, and you have 1 too many to use as squad leaders.

I love the swiftclaws. I'd give them the MotW from the 5 man grey hunters squad - I think that squad is too small to need the standard too

This is exactly the same list of your other post a part 150 pts more.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/467059.page

Try to regroup this kind of double 3ds.

Anyway it present the same identical problems of the 1850 setup.

I don't partuclary like the Flamer+Plasmagun setup for the 2 10x GHs units. I do prefer specialised units with one kind of special weapons.

Drop the MOTW in the 5x unit. You'll don't want them in CC and if this will happen with so few models it wouldn't make a big difference. Same argument for the Standard. They, both upgrades, start to be really effective with at least 7/8 models.

I see Challenges problems for your units. If you'll accept with your WGs they will likely be killed by enemy special characters with better inv. saves, if you'll decline half of your team will be killed instead.
In general considerations, low I/low AP weapons need a good inv. save (like PA/PF/TH/CF coupled with SS), regular to high I weapons can work with 2+/5++.

Your swiftclaws will still benefit more from a Wolf Priest instead of a Rune Priest and they still will profit from some Plasmagun as well.

You're investing 240 pts on a very badly equipped Wolf Lord.
Each turn of combat you'll have to declare which CC weapon you'll use. IF you'll use the Frost sword you'll have a poor +1 ST with AP3 at regular I, IF you'll use the WC you'll may choose the rerolls to hit or to wound with ST4 still at AP3. Non sense.
I'll may understand a PF/WC combo, when you'll may choose between an I1 ST8 AP2 weapon vs I1 adversaries OR a I4 ST4 AP3 with Rerolls vs regular I opponents.
In any scenario I will take Runic Armor + Saga of the Bear instead of Belt of Russ + Saga of the Warrior Born as well.
Not taking this upgrades on a WL really is a non sense, your choices however may be taken on a cheaper and stil effective WGBL instead, so why a WL?

6 Long Fangs with 5x MLs are 140 pts. 90+50

the termys go in the 10 man GH squad, one in each drop pod (the 7 and 5 man GH squads), the CML goes into ether the 5 man Plasma gun GH squad or a pack of Long Fangs


As far as the list being up on any other point value, yes it is, But like I had said, due to 6th I have only been able to play 1 person due to lack of people in my area ready for 6th
as far as the problems go I saw it as, free flamer + Free Plasma meaning I ca take care of hordes if I need to or I can shot glancing shots

the 5 man squad also gets term with Power Axe, meaning the re-rolls of 1 still so as long as the termy hits I can re-roll the only fails (assuming t4), other wise I see and understand your point

So just add SS to my WG as is now and that should fix the challenge problems??

well the Rune Priest is in there for the Divination power (re-rolls to hit), but I have never run a wolf priest so please explain.

So basically, drop the WC or put a PF on him instead of FB and I mainly though the WL over the WGBL for the Extra attack, Wound and WS
Would a WGBL be better at the 1850 point value?

For the Long fangs that was my bad suppose to be 5 LF with 4 MLs

x13eyondx wrote:
free flamer + Free Plasma meaning I ca take care of hordes if I need to or I can shot glancing shots

Nope. You have to pay for the most expensive special weapon, then you get the other one free. So it's a 10 point plasmagun + free flamer. Frankly, the guys with the plasmaguns shouldn't get close enough to use a flamer. You're better off with 2 plasmaguns for more shooty death.

the 5 man squad also gets term with Power Axe, meaning the re-rolls of 1

Only once per game can you use the wolf standard. And you'll be re-rolling ALL dice rolls of 1. Not just the "to Hit" rolls, but the "to Wound" rolls and your armor saves too.

but I have never run a wolf priest so please explain.

A Wolf Priest confers the universal special rules "Fearless" and "Preferred Enemy (Unit type of choice)" to any unit he joins. Preferred Enemy lets you re-roll all "to Hit" rolls AND all "to Wound" rolls of '1' for BOTH shooting AND CC. He does this automatically, every turn without having to make a psychic test and risking perils of the warp.

In contrast, the Rune priest's divination power can be conferred to ANY friendly unit within 12" of the RP - not necessarily the unit he has joined. But the power only lasts for that turn, he has to make a psychic test first and it only lets you re-roll "to Hit". This is best used on your long fangs. You put your RP back with both LF units. One LF unit is Anti-Tank, the other Anti-infantry. Each turn you can decide which one you want to give the bonus to on a turn by turn basis.

Similarly, a Wolf Standard allows you to re-roll ALL dice rolls of '1' by the unit with the standard, ONCE per game for one assault phase. So this is great because you also get to re-roll missed armor saves. But it's sort of difficult to time the use of this thing because you have to declare that you're using it in the shooting phase.

I didn't know it was the most expensive is the one that gets the points. thank you for clearing that up.
So 2 plasmas in those squads

For the standard yes I knew that, I probably should have said it like that tho

So basically a wolf priest would be better then my rune priest in the bike squad but then should I drop the Wolf Lord to get the points for him???

x13eyondx wrote:
So basically, drop the WC or put a PF on him instead of FB and I mainly though the WL over the WGBL for the Extra attack, Wound and WS
Would a WGBL be better at the 1850 point value?

You can't take two CC weapons. That's not legal. Besides, even if you could it would be ridiculously expensive. Here's the thing. Decide if you want this guy to have an AP2 close combat weapon but strike at Initiative 1, or have an AP3 close combat weapon but strike at initiative 5. If you want AP3, take a wolf claw. If you want AP2, take a power fist.

Now, I personally think that the wolf lord not well suited for the bike. (and it's un-dignified!) The wolf lord is a bad-ass in close combat, but he doesn't really amplify the unit he's attached to. All he does is make them Ld 10. On the other hand, a wolf priest will not only make the unit he's attached to Ld 10, but he makes them fearless! And he gives them preferred enemy toward any one unit type (infantry for example). So for any attacks (shooting or CC) that unit makes against a unit of that type, ALL of the models in the unit will get to re-roll "to Hit" and "to Wound" rolls of '1' for the entire game. Now...considering that your swift-claws only have WS3 and BS3, getting to re-roll really magnifies the effectiveness of all 10 bikes in the squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toban wrote:
I see Challenges problems for your units. If you'll accept with your WGs they will likely be killed by enemy special characters with better inv. saves, if you'll decline half of your team will be killed instead.
In general considerations, low I/low AP weapons need a good inv. save (like PA/PF/TH/CF coupled with SS), regular to high I weapons can work with 2+/5++.

While he's right about technical aspect of this, I really think that he's over-estimating the threat of challenges. How many uber-characters do most of your opponents have? Probably one, maybe two. Heck, we're space wolves! We can have 4, but almost no-one ever does because it's a waste of points. So....yes, your wolf guard will get killed if challenged by an independent character. But the thing is, he's only going to have one character to worry about and you'll have several turns to get ready for him. Let him kill your 40 point WG model with his 200+ point character. The wolf guard will die to save the squad and buy you another turn to rescue them with another unit. This is a non-issue.

Your swiftclaws will still benefit more from a Wolf Priest instead of a Rune Priest and they still will profit from some Plasmagun as well.

Yes. This exactly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Start from here and add more units until you get to 1850

so leaving my WG with Power Axes is fine?

So maybe I can take a wolf priest and WBGL on the bike? which would mean I would want a PF on the WGBL instead of the WCs cause I would already have re-rolls against most things I'd be attacking

And I can only add 1 plasma visa the squad to the bike squad for 15 pints which is why I didn't add any, but I could see you point of it does glance most things and it's just a stronger shot that I would have

and thank you for making the restart list! much appreciated

@Grugknuckle Am I missing something regarding having to pay for the most expensive special weapon?

Options:
One Grey Hunter may replace his bolter with one of the following:
...
If the squad numbers ten models, a second GH may replace his bolter with a weapon from the above list at no addition cost.

The only FAQ that is applicable is
Q: Must a GH unit that consists of ten models take the first special weapon at normal points cost in order to take the second free one? (p26)
A. Yes

He took the flamer at the normal point cost (0 points). Then he took the plasmagun for free. He cannot just take the plasmagun and skip on the flamer.

as far as it goes this is what I seem to have to replace my 2000 point list now:

Rune Priest - 100 Points

Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Power Fist, Space Marine Bike, Saga Of The Worrior Born .165 Points

Wolf Priest w/ Space Bike, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman .160 Points

Troops:
10 Grey hunters + 2xPlasmaguns, MotW, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod . 220 Points

10 Grey hunters + 2xPlasmaguns, MotW, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod. 220 Points


8 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod .185 Points

8 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod . 185 Points


05 Grey hunters w/ Plasma gun .85 points

Elites:
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Space Bike, Power Axe .129 Points

Fast Attack:
10 Swiftclaw Biker Pack w/ Power Sword .265 Points

Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs w/ 2 Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers .170 Points

5 Long Fangs w/ 4 Missile Launchers .115 Points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
for the 1850 list this is all I can think would work okay:

Rune Priest - 100 Points

Wolf Priest w/ Space Bike, Runic Armor, Wolf Tail Talisman .160 Points

Troops:
10 Grey hunters + 2xPlasmaguns, MotW, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod . 220 Points

10 Grey hunters + 2xPlasmaguns, MotW, Wolf Standard, Drop Pod. 220 Points


8 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod .185 Points

8 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod . 185 Points


05 Grey hunters w/ Plasma gun .85 Points

Elites:
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Sheild
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Space Bike, Power Axe .144 Points

Fast Attack:
10 Swiftclaw Biker Pack w/ Power Sword .265 Points

Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs w/ 2 Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers .170 Points

5 Long Fangs w/ 4 Missile Launchers .115 Points

Actually, I for one like your first list. While I prefer to double up the special weapons, its not a requirement. Its also pretty obvious where your Terminators are going (most in Drop Pods, CML in back field with small Grey Hunter unit). With the rule changes to Bikes I think this list is actually fairly strong. I disagree with a lot of the complaints in the other thread.

Really the only things I'd want to change are the Wolf Lord and making sure you take a Combi-Melta (on the Bike Wolf Guard), Meltagun, and Attack Bike with Multi-Melta for your Swiftclaws. Your Wolf Lord I would drop for a Wolf Priest with Runic Armor and Bike.

So results are in. The list I ran with was this:

HQ:
Rune Priest w/ Runic armor, Space Bike, Master of Runes, (giving him divination and biomancy powers) .205 points

Wolf Priest w/ Space Bike, Runic Armor .155 points

Troops:
10 Grey hunters w/ Flamer, Plasma gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard . 175 Points

10 Grey hunters w/ Flamer, Plasma gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod .210 Points

07 Grey hunters w/ Melta gun, Mark of Wolfen, Wolf Standard, Drop pod . 170 Points

05 Grey Hunters w/ Plasma Gun, Drop Pod .110 Points

Elites:
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Axe, Storm Bolter
Wolf Gaurd w/ Terminator Armor, Power Sword, Storm Bolter, Cyclone Missile Launcher
Wolf Gaurd w/ Space Bike, Power Axe .225 points total

Fast Attack:
10 Swiftclaw Biker Pack w/ Power Sword, Attack bike, Multi-melta .265 points

Heavy Support:
6 Long Fangs w/ 2 Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers .170 points

5 Long Fangs w/ 4 Missile Launchers .115points

My Rune Priest got re-rolls to Hit on Divination table, and Feebal on Biomancy. The Bike squad was eating Infantry and 2 Monstrous Creators before getting stuck in combat last turn, I did lose tho (I had 1 of 5 objectives) but the wolf priest won Challenges for me and the fearless kept me in battle, the re-rolls to wounds where also very nice

leohart wrote:@Grugknuckle Am I missing something regarding having to pay for the most expensive special weapon?

Options:
One Grey Hunter may replace his bolter with one of the following:
...
If the squad numbers ten models, a second GH may replace his bolter with a weapon from the above list at no addition cost.

The only FAQ that is applicable is
Q: Must a GH unit that consists of ten models take the first special weapon at normal points cost in order to take the second free one? (p26)
A. Yes

He took the flamer at the normal point cost (0 points). Then he took the plasmagun for free. He cannot just take the plasmagun and skip on the flamer.

Yeh this is what i was going to say - there's nothing says you have to pay for the most expensive one

Grugknuckle wrote:

x13eyondx wrote:
So basically, drop the WC or put a PF on him instead of FB and I mainly though the WL over the WGBL for the Extra attack, Wound and WS
Would a WGBL be better at the 1850 point value?

You can't take two CC weapons. That's not legal.

This is not true. You *may* take 2 CC weapons, in fact the "Specialist Weapon" rule on page 42 of the BRB is all about having a second CC weapon.
However....

Grugknuckle wrote:Besides, even if you could it would be ridiculously expensive. Here's the thing. Decide if you want this guy to have an AP2 close combat weapon but strike at Initiative 1, or have an AP3 close combat weapon but strike at initiative 5. If you want AP3, take a wolf claw. If you want AP2, take a power fist.

This is true. It *is* a very expensive option just to give either 1 extra attack or a little tactical flexibility. It can be worth it, but probably won't be

Claw + Fist is actually very good on a lord.