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Second game of 6th yesterday - Chaos vs Tau. These issues all came up...

1. Daemon Prince (Flying monstrous creature, unit of 1) is being shot by 12 Fire Warriors. He is in cover to 4 FWs and clearly visible to 8 FWs. Does he get a cover save, since he only needs to be in cover from one of them, right?

2. Seeker missile at a Daemon Prince. Seeker missiles ignore line of sight. Can the DP get a cover save if there is no line of sight?

3. Jetpack unit Thrusts to get into cover, prompting a Dangerous Terrain test. Can you use 'look out sir' on a dangerous terain test?

4. If i Overwatch fire with a markerlight, can I launch a seeker missile?

5. Feel no pain says you can take the save against any 'unsaved wound' - do you have to have tried to save the wound first? So, if you don't get a save from an attack, do you get to FNP?

1) a chaos marine dp is NOT a flying Mac, the chaos daemon one is, however.
I think yiure right on main question, no access to book at moment.

2) No, you would get non los cover such s area though

3) no; you Los! On allocation, dangerous terrain never allocates

4) yes, at bs5 as normal
5) not being able to take a save automatically fails that save

1. Yes he does get a cover save.

2. That's difficult. I'd probably say no, as with cover saves there needs to be something in the way of the line of sight of the firing model to the model being fired at to generate a cover save, if it ignores line of sight, then logically there would also not be a cover save. I'm sure that it could be argued the other way, but I'd personally say no cover save.

3. No.

4. I don't know on that one I'm afraid, I very rarely play against Tau.

5. Yes, as an unsaved wound is one that has not been saved, if you couldn't make a saving throw against it, the wound has not been saved, and hence is an unsaved wound, allowing a FNP roll.

ArbitorIan wrote:Second game of 6th yesterday - Chaos vs Tau. These issues all came up...

1. Daemon Prince (Flying monstrous creature, unit of 1) is being shot by 12 Fire Warriors. He is in cover to 4 FWs and clearly visible to 8 FWs. Does he get a cover save, since he only needs to be in cover from one of them, right?
Yes.

2. Seeker missile at a Daemon Prince. Seeker missiles ignore line of sight. Can the DP get a cover save if there is no line of sight?
This can of worms has yet to be sorted out.

3. Jetpack unit Thrusts to get into cover, prompting a Dangerous Terrain test. Can you use 'look out sir' on a dangerous terain test?
Nope, the model suffers a wound he isn't allocated one.
4. If i Overwatch fire with a markerlight, can I launch a seeker missile?
Yes, the only condition for firing the missile is a marker hit.
5. Feel no pain says you can take the save against any 'unsaved wound' - do you have to have tried to save the wound first? So, if you don't get a save from an attack, do you get to FNP?
A wound that you don't save, either by failing the roll or the AP ignoring your save, is unsaved.

Page 18 Determining Cover Saves, explains that it does (I thought it would only get a save from the 4 models )

2, If you use the Tau seeker missile as an example while it does not need a LOS, it does mention that when you want to know if you hit the front, side or rear of a target, you simply measure a straight line from the vehicle to its target.

I cannot imagine why you couldn't determine cover saves in this exact same manner, or why GW would ever FAQ it any other way. Seeker missiles, page 31 Tau Dex for reference. Sure there is no "rule" for cover saves in this manner, but it seems a perfect solution.

3 Dunno

4, yes, (perhaps) I would ask this though, Snapshot = BS1, Markerlight missile = BS5. Which takes priority? To be fair, I can only imagine Snapshot BS1 would take priority.
Easier to work the +1 bonus out, that just makes you BS2 on snapshots, but the BS5 missiles on overwatch seems a little dodgy and most likely not intentional.

Where the BRB and a Codex conflict, the Codex wins out. If the BRB says something is fired at BS1, and the Codex says the same thing is actually fired at BS5, then it's fired at BS5.

Thanks for these guys - good to know

hashrat wrote:4, yes, (perhaps) I would ask this though, Snapshot = BS1, Markerlight missile = BS5. Which takes priority? To be fair, I can only imagine Snapshot BS1 would take priority.
Easier to work the +1 bonus out, that just makes you BS2 on snapshots, but the BS5 missiles on overwatch seems a little dodgy and most likely not intentional.

You're right - this is another problem. Squad leaders don't have networked markerlights, so the +1BS can't be applied to the Pulse shots in the same squad. The only thing you can do with the markerlight hit is fire the seeker.

I'd suggest that, since in order to fire the seeker, you already have to make the hit at BS1, and since the 'firer' of the seeker missile is not the unit being charged (but the vehicle it's mounted on) then BS5 remains??

1. Yes

2. For seekers you get cover saves from from area terrain or wargear special rules. If you also add in the Smart missile system rules - which is probably RAI - you also get a cover save if you're touching terrain that lies between you and the firer

3. No

4. logic would say only if it's a networked markerlight, otherwise it takes a second unit to call it in. So if it came from a Skyray or a marker drone then yes. However, this has been faq'd to say no - go figure...

5. FNP is only bypassed for wounds that cause instant death.

Alf O'Mega wrote:4. logic would say only if it's a networked markerlight, otherwise it takes a second unit to call it in. So if it came from a Skyray or a marker drone then yes. However, this has been faq'd to say no - go figure...

Wow never noticed that FAQ answer.
It is however horribly worded, as vehicles never launch their seekers the codex even goes so far as to say they have no control over them.

I only just read the FAQ myself, easy to overlook as GW don't make the flipping PDF's searchable

@ArbitorIan - You're very nearly right with this, but they can't even call in a seeker. The only time the same squad can both place and use a markerlight counter in the same turn is if it's networked.

More than this though, if you go strictly by the seeker missile entry, in order to call in a seeker you also have to be armed with a markerlight. This also means that you need fire that markerlight at the unit you're firing the seeker at, which may well be a waste of a second markerlight.

These rules seem pretty broken to me at the moement and mean I rarely use seekers, they only really work if you call them in from marker drones or from Skyrays or Remoras. Otherwise you end up having to have two markerlights to fire one seeker, usually having only a 41% chance of hitting - and if you do this with a Skyray/Remora you effectively take the range down from unlimited, not needing line of sight to 36" requiring line of sight. The alternative, marker drones, are the most expensive source of markerlights for the Tau but if they're attached to a team of stealth suits I suppose it could work. But then you'd be firing a pile of ST5 AP5 shots at a target that you really want to be firing a ST8 AP3 weapon at which isn't normally what you would want to do, unless maybe you're trying to clear out a load of grunts and hit the last man standing with the seeker...

Sorry if I'm pushing this thread off topic - just wanted to get that off my chest, I'll shut up now!

For 1. and 2. does cover even matter? Doesn't the prince get a 5+ invulnerable save anyway?