Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Here is a hypothetical:

A seller sells a one of a kind used item on ebay to a buyer.

The buyer pays via paypal and provides a shipping address.

Seller ships item via USPS w/ delivery confirmation.

Item is confirmed delivered according to USPS records.

Buyer now claims he has not received item and demands refund. Buyer files ebay claim and paypal funds are held, etc., etc. while ebay reviews details, etc.

In the course of the discussion buyer admits neither he nor a designated agent are able to be at shipping address and that it is an apartment complex.

Should Seller refund money or is it on the buyer who chose an unsecure address?

Hell no with emphasis on the no.

eh, if its confirmed delivered to the sellers address by USPS, its not the sellers fault. He needs to contact USPS to find out what happened.

Horst wrote:eh, if its confirmed delivered to the sellers address by USPS, its not the sellers fault. He needs to contact USPS to find out what happened.

Buyer claims he did and USPS told him seller needs to make a lost package claim.

Problem is according to USPS package wasnt lost, but was confimed delivered to the address the buyer designated.

The whole thing Seems fishy to me and also a waste of time for the seller to make a claim since USPS cofirms it delivered and because he did everything right on his end.

Ultimately the buyer chose to have item shipped to an unsecure address. It does suck if someone stole the package, but I don't see how that is the seller's fault.



Glad to see my gut instinct is in line with what you all are posting here.

Just have to wait on Ebay to resolve I guess...

Delivery confirmation sucks, no signature, it might have been left with a neighbor. they could have just left it on the porch and it got swiped.

All delivery confirmation does is tell you it was delivered to the correct zip code, but other than that you have no information on what happened. For all we know the buyer planned it out, and told the seller he wouldn't be at home so he could say it was never delivered and get a refund and the sold item.

When people go into my store and tell me they are selling something online and just need Delivery confirmation, or want to send it Certified without Return Receipt, I try to talk them into either shipping it UPS or putting Return Receipt on it.


UPS( or FedEx if you prefer them) will know where the package is at all times and if the driver has to leave a package outside, but feels it may become damaged or lost, they leave a note and keep it on the truck, try again tomorrow. They try that three times, then they leave a note saying it's at the Hub. after a week of sitting at the hub it goes back to the shipper.

Return Receipt, USPS cannot leave it without a signature. It might be the neighbor, but when you receive the RR paperwork back, you'll know who has it.


I would call up USPS anyways and see what they would say, if I were the seller. If nothing else they may refund the sellers postal fees. Probably unlikely, but you never know.


Generally with UPS, if something is wrong with the package, the Shipper ( like if you went to a UPS Store, they would have to contact claims, where if you had your own shipper number, you would have to call the Claims office). But the Post Office claims office would prolly need to be contacted by the seller.

CT GAMER wrote:Here is a hypothetical:

A seller sells a one of a kind used item on ebay to a buyer.

The buyer pays via paypal and provides a shipping address.

Seller ships item via USPS w/ delivery confirmation.

Item is confirmed delivered according to USPS records.

Buyer now claims he has not received item and demands refund. Buyer files ebay claim and paypal funds are held, etc., etc. while ebay reviews details, etc.

In the course of the discussion buyer admits neither he nor a designated agent are able to be at shipping address and that it is an apartment complex.

Should Seller refund money or is it on the buyer who chose an unsecure address?

Don't refund. It's not the seller's fault. It probably got stolen. And honestly, my opinion is to never ship via USPS unless you're shipping to a P.O. box. UPS with required signature is the way to go. USPS just dumps the gak on the doorstep and walks off; they don't care because they're not responsible past the moment of delivery.

Well the seller should refund then on the basis he used USPS. Paying for things you haven't received is completely unfair.

Glorioski wrote:Paying for things you haven't received is completely unfair.

So is mail fraud...

Glorioski wrote:Well the seller should refund then on the basis he used USPS. Paying for things you haven't received is completely unfair.

By that logic all eBay sales should be C.O.D.

While I agree deliver confirmation sucks, that covers your end. Shipped and received. The only way you should refund the sale is if you get the goods back.

I know of cases where someone just hung around apartment complexes waiting for UPS to make a delivery, accept on big packages going to someone that actually lived there from the driver, then take off with it after the driver left.

This is an oddly specific hypothetical.

It's his fault for trusting his fellow man and USPS.

Unless you're feeling generous enough to try and help it isn't your problem.

Id tell the buyer to lick my balls.

How is it the sellers fault if the buyer is a fething half-wit?

I don't know about the US, but in the UK it is the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer. The seller takes the risk, and as the seller has control over the postage, insurance, etc. it is up to them if the item is lost. IMO the seller should suck it up and accept that they should have insured the item if it was valuable. In almost all shipping contracts of whatever size, unless otherwise stated, the delivery is to the buyer with risk only transferring to the seller once they have taken possession.

It sounds like it is up to ebay and paypal now anyway.

mattyrm wrote:Id tell the buyer to lick my balls.

Something about that phrase makes me squirm a little and not in the good way.

mattyrm wrote:Id tell the buyer to lick my balls.

While it might make you feel good, I'm not sure that it helps find the package. Well, not the missing package at least.

I find it sort of convienant that a buyer can just say " nope didnt get it, give me my money back" even though it is confirmed delivered by carrier.

Nice way to double your money...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steve steveson wrote: it is the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer.

So the seller must package up the item safely and send it to the requested address with delivery confirmation to know it was delivered.

What is the seller supposed to do beyond that? The seller has documentation that it was shipped and deilivered. The buyer has nothing but his statement he didnt get it.

The buyer's word is 100% infallible despite no proof and in the face of shiping agent documentation, etc.?

Sorry, I missed that you had proof of dilivery. In that case it was diliverd safely and you fullfilled your part. Sorry, I didn't read it properly. In that case it has been diliverd and it is up to the buyer. I would say it is down to USPS however, as they either did diliver it and the buyer is lieing or they did not diliver it and the POD is wrong (which is not unkown). I would pass everything to paypal and let them sort it out, as no amount of talking on here will change what paypal are doing.

What proof do they have that it was diliverd?