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1. Does MSS work on walkers? (i.e. vehicles with no leadership).

2. Specifically, on Lucius the Eternal. There are several issues with this character:
a. It says it inflicts D3 hits on himself or his unit. It then says it hits are resolved with victim's strengths and benefits from any abilities or penalties. Lucius reduces all opponents in b2b to 1 attack. Would this then reduce the D3 hits to 1 hit from Lucius since he would be in base contact with himself?
b. Second, any saved wound from Lucius' armor inflicts a wound (with no armor save). So, since Lucius would be attacking himself (or his unit), if he did punch himself in the face and then makes his save, he would then have to take another invul save from his armor? Would this repeat until he failed (assuming it is only on himself)? Seems kind of dumb, but......

1) No. No leadership value is NOT the same ahs having Ld0.

2) No. You are not in base contact with yourself

3) not sure.

I Agree with Nosferatu. I don't have access to the Chaos Marine codex here sadly, so I don't know what he wields, but perhaps 2b is resolved if Lucius weapon would ignores his armour save anyway?

He has a power sword, but awkwardly the lash can be used as a CCW.

Well, depending on the precise wording of his armour rule, it would then basically come down to him always having to use his invulnerable save if he's attacking himself, right?

Redemption wrote:Well, depending on the precise wording of his armour rule, it would then basically come down to him always having to use his invulnerable save if he's attacking himself, right?

I would have to double check the exact wording in my codex at home, but it says that for every saved wound Lucius makes he inflicts a wound on his opponent with no armor save.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:1) No. No leadership value is NOT the same ahs having Ld0.

Interesting. I made this very claim several times and was belittled and told I was wrong (very emphatically) by a necron player. However, I can find nothing to back this up.

If having no Leadership its the same as having Leadership 0, then all vehicles are immediately removed from play because they have 0 Wounds, and 0 Toughness. Possibly 0 Strength as well.

Lucius wording says the unit causing the wound suffers the hit, so if he hits himself and wounds he would take extra hits.


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Green is Best! wrote:

Redemption wrote:Well, depending on the precise wording of his armour rule, it would then basically come down to him always having to use his invulnerable save if he's attacking himself, right?

I would have to double check the exact wording in my codex at home, but it says that for every saved wound Lucius makes he inflicts a wound on his opponent with no armor save.


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nosferatu1001 wrote:1) No. No leadership value is NOT the same ahs having Ld0.

Interesting. I made this very claim several times and was belittled and told I was wrong (very emphatically) by a necron player. However, I can find nothing to back this up.

I'm pretty sure its even in the necron faq or maybe even codex that vehicles are not affected, including walkers. A dreadnaught has a pretty good chance of killing a necron lord/overlord before he gets to strike.

I thought Mindshackle scarabs went off at the beginning of combat (i.e. before I10). Are you telling me they do not go off until the Lord's initiativ step?

I really need to look over this necron codex.....

Its goes off at the beginning of the fight subphase, so before I10

Green is Best! wrote:

Redemption wrote:Well, depending on the precise wording of his armour rule, it would then basically come down to him always having to use his invulnerable save if he's attacking himself, right?

I would have to double check the exact wording in my codex at home, but it says that for every saved wound Lucius makes he inflicts a wound on his opponent with no armor save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) No. No leadership value is NOT the same ahs having Ld0.

Interesting. I made this very claim several times and was belittled and told I was wrong (very emphatically) by a necron player. However, I can find nothing to back this up.

The closest you're going to get RAW wise is on p76 under "Vehicles, Leadership, and Morale." There it talks about vehicles being immune to Morale tests (a subset of leadership tests) for various reasons. I firmly believe this is a much stronger argument, though, than blanket statements that all vehicles are leadership 10.

Interestingly, Lucius' whip doesn't specify it only affects enemy models, which to me suggests that friendly models touching bases with him should also lose attacks. Which would mean if he is in base to base with himself (which I don't think he is) he would always lose the attacks from it when using it.

Even still, the D3 on Mindshackle scarabs would override any modifier like the whip, much like an imperial guardsman with only 1 attack on his profile who got Mindshackled would still do D3 attacks.

Also, the Mindshackle Scarabs do trigger between the assault movements and the first attack being swung, conveniently the same time as you declare and resolve Challenges, so if you are the controlling player and charge a MSS lord, you can choose to resolve the Scarabs first then do your Challenge after.

Also Lucius would be able to choose what weapon he attacks himself with, either his whip which someone said is counted as a CCW or his power sword

MarkyMark wrote:Also Lucius would be able to choose what weapon he attacks himself with, either his whip which someone said is counted as a CCW or his power sword

You might want to re-read MSS, because Lucius most definitely does not get to choose what he attacks with.

Happyjew wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:Also Lucius would be able to choose what weapon he attacks himself with, either his whip which someone said is counted as a CCW or his power sword

You might want to re-read MSS, because Lucius most definitely does not get to choose what he attacks with.

Acutally I was getting the info from the necron 6th ed FAQ;s on the GW website, and mis read it, poop, the controller of the MSS gets to choose which weapon lucius will use not the chaos player my bad