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Hi everyone, my little brother is thinking of taking his space marine collection to a more canine level, he took one look at the wolf models and got all starry eyed

He does not play all that often so may not get into grasping the finer points of a hard to use list, so I thought I would ask here before telling him to commit to a cavalry/beast list, is this theme generally a straightforward list to pick up?

you have to remember that wolves never count as scoring and TWC only count as scoring in the scouring. he would have to table his opponent to win every time.

Fenrisian Wolves are good as Character Wargear. Its an extra two wounds and some extra attacks.
As a unit they could be fun to use.

Just make sure you have Canis or another Character with Saga of the Wolfkin.

One option if he just want a few is to attach them to an Iron Priest.

Though I'm also new to the game, I really enjoy both Cavalry and Wolfpacks. The Cavalry are amazing armor hunters, been using them in pack of 3 with MB to hunt enemy vehicles and Dreads.

The Wolves are amazing against non-assault troops like Fire Warriors or Guardians. Also against heavy weapon crews, like Lobbas or Kannons for Orks(Grots don't really fight back -.-)

In my opinion, you could field a Cavalry/Beast type army, but in truth it won't be super effective in tourny play. For a casual collector/ip enthusiast, I think a Beast army would be a great choice!

Fenrisian Wolves are also ok transport hunters. I cant wait to get my own GW wolves so I can model one who managed to in 5th immobilize a Ork Battle Wagon with his Ork tire chew toy. Now in 6th they have a good chance of glancing one to death. And if you got it surrounded finish off the crew and with there large Pack number this is a good possibility.

If you take a certain HQ doesnt all the wolves count as scoring then?

No, it even states that under thier profile. If you have not got a copy of the book, it would be a good idea to get one.

Anpu42 wrote:No, it even states that under thier profile. If you have not got a copy of the book, it would be a good idea to get one.

If you read Canis Wolfborns section in the back you will see that I are right.

"Fenrisian Wolves count as troops in any army that includes Canis Wolfborn"

This is under the assumption we were talking about fenrisian wolves and not thunderwolf cavalry.

I am talking about the wolves not TWC. It States they can never be counted as scoring units under the Wolves Profile.

Yea I jsut read that. And I find tha confusing that you can count Fen Wolves as troops but then they cant score? So whats the point of counting them as troops? Just to take up a troop slot?

With canis the wolves become troops but still can NEVER score under their own special rule.

Razgriz22 wrote:Yea I jsut read that. And I find tha confusing that you can count Fen Wolves as troops but then they cant score? So whats the point of counting them as troops? Just to take up a troop slot?

Yes, so that if you run an all wolf army you will have some troops. You can do 4 Thunderlords, 3 Iron Priest on Thunderwolves, 6 Fenrisian Wolf Packs and 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry. I calculated it out once, you are looking at 3k 128 models of Beast an Cavalry, and not a Single Scoring Unit!

Anpu42 wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:Yea I jsut read that. And I find tha confusing that you can count Fen Wolves as troops but then they cant score? So whats the point of counting them as troops? Just to take up a troop slot?

Yes, so that if you run an all wolf army you will have some troops. You can do 4 Thunderlords, 3 Iron Priest on Thunderwolves, 6 Fenrisian Wolf Packs and 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry. I calculated it out once, you are looking at 3k 128 models of Beast an Cavalry, and not a Single Scoring Unit!

LOL that is insane. So main goal being to table EVERYONE! ???

Razgriz22 wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:Yea I jsut read that. And I find tha confusing that you can count Fen Wolves as troops but then they cant score? So whats the point of counting them as troops? Just to take up a troop slot?

Yes, so that if you run an all wolf army you will have some troops. You can do 4 Thunderlords, 3 Iron Priest on Thunderwolves, 6 Fenrisian Wolf Packs and 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry. I calculated it out once, you are looking at 3k 128 models of Beast an Cavalry, and not a Single Scoring Unit!

LOL that is insane. So main goal being to table EVERYONE! ???

Actually:
First to see the face on the Guard Player as I keep pulling models out and possibly out numbering him.
Second to just have a blast watching my hordes of wolves charge across the board while chanting the Kibbles and Bits theme.
And then if I can win by Tabling him or loose by being tabled myself, anyways it should be and exiting 3-4 Turns.

Anpu42 wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:

Anpu42 wrote:

Razgriz22 wrote:Yea I jsut read that. And I find tha confusing that you can count Fen Wolves as troops but then they cant score? So whats the point of counting them as troops? Just to take up a troop slot?

Yes, so that if you run an all wolf army you will have some troops. You can do 4 Thunderlords, 3 Iron Priest on Thunderwolves, 6 Fenrisian Wolf Packs and 3 Thunderwolf Cavalry. I calculated it out once, you are looking at 3k 128 models of Beast an Cavalry, and not a Single Scoring Unit!

LOL that is insane. So main goal being to table EVERYONE! ???

Actually:
First to see the face on the Guard Player as I keep pulling models out and possibly out numbering him.
Second to just have a blast watching my hordes of wolves charge across the board while chanting the Kibbles and Bits theme.
And then if I can win by Tabling him or loose by being tabled myself, anyways it should be and exiting 3-4 Turns.

You sir are brilliant.

This is why I enjoy 40k. Fun games. Winning, eh maybe sometime, fun? YES

I play eldar and really like the wolves. Dont care about anyhting else in the SW codex really (it is a nice dex though). So I thought why not take wolves with my eldar for kicks and giggles. Still devising the list thought.

Think aboout Canis and 15 Wolves as an Ally force

I've tried a Wolf spam list before, it's actually a lot of fun but really hard to move because there are so many bodies out there. But still - 15 Wolves with a Cyberwolf is only 128pts! And with Canis they gain +1I/Ld, so they're striking before Space Marine models typically. Also, I wouldn't recommend going 100% Wolves. Take 2 units of Grey Hunters to score objectives, or some Imperial Guard allies. Here's a sample list I'd try out if you're interested in this list type:

HQ
Canis Wolfborn (2x Fenrisian Wolves)
Rune Priest (Bolt Pistol)
Wolf Lord (Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Runic Armour, 2x Fenrisian Wolves)

TROOPS
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
5x Grey Hunters (Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)
5x Grey Hunters (Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)

FAST ATTACK
3x Thunderwolf Cavalry (1x Powerfist, 2x Storm Shield)

HEAVY SUPPORT
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
TOTAL: 1997pts

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I've tried a Wolf spam list before, it's actually a lot of fun but really hard to move because there are so many bodies out there. But still - 15 Wolves with a Cyberwolf is only 128pts! And with Canis they gain +1I/Ld, so they're striking before Space Marine models typically. Also, I wouldn't recommend going 100% Wolves. Take 2 units of Grey Hunters to score objectives, or some Imperial Guard allies. Here's a sample list I'd try out if you're interested in this list type:

HQ
Canis Wolfborn (2x Fenrisian Wolves)
Rune Priest (Bolt Pistol)
Wolf Lord (Thunderwolf Mount, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Runic Armour, 2x Fenrisian Wolves)

TROOPS
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
15x Fenrisian Wolves (Cyberwolf)
5x Grey Hunters (Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)
5x Grey Hunters (Twin-Linked Lascannon Razorback)

FAST ATTACK
3x Thunderwolf Cavalry (1x Powerfist, 2x Storm Shield)

HEAVY SUPPORT
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
6x Long Fangs (5x Missile Launchers)
TOTAL: 1997pts

Give that RP a Storm Bolter for 3 pts, rounding that bada list off to a sexy clean 2k!

Fenrisian wolves are terrible in units. Low ld, AS, no range, no threat to much but stupidly placed vehicles. Great models, but horrible stats. Seriously, they are crappy gants without the boosts. And can't score.

If you want effective wolves, take TWC. Unfortunately, the SW codex really funnels you into a few choices if you want effective forces and excludes cool units like Blood Claws, Fenrisian wolves, Dreads, etc.

The answer to your question is no, they are not a useful option, nor are they are particularly cost-effective option, from a money standpoint. Finally, Grey Hunters do everything better.

They are a GREAT model, but don't go off and buy the 9+ boxes necessary to make an absolutely atrocious army.

Canis is a terrible HQ. lasguns will make this army run away. You have no scoring units and are completely on foot. What army DOESN'T completely wipe an all wolf army off the table?

Buy a box and attach them to lone wolves/wolf lords for a centrepiece.

jmurph wrote:Fenrisian wolves are terrible in units. Low ld, AS, no range, no threat to much but stupidly placed vehicles. Great models, but horrible stats. Seriously, they are crappy gants without the boosts. And can't score.

If you want effective wolves, take TWC. Unfortunately, the SW codex really funnels you into a few choices if you want effective forces and excludes cool units like Blood Claws, Fenrisian wolves, Dreads, etc.

Gordash wrote:The answer to your question is no, they are not a useful option, nor are they are particularly cost-effective option, from a money standpoint. Finally, Grey Hunters do everything better.

They are a GREAT model, but don't go off and buy the 9+ boxes necessary to make an absolutely atrocious army.

Canis is a terrible HQ. lasguns will make this army run away. You have no scoring units and are completely on foot. What army DOESN'T completely wipe an all wolf army off the table?

Buy a box and attach them to lone wolves/wolf lords for a centrepiece.

YES! You are correct in all of your analysis, but you are missing the point of Canis and the Wolf Packs.

Play Wolves for the Fun of it.
Play Grey Hunters to Win!

If you notice the two of us who are putting up list and telling you how to play them have never said they were winners. For example my 128 model Wolf only list will either Win or Loose by Turn 3 or 4, but what an exiting 3-4 turns you and your opponent are going to have.

Once more if you want to WIN then pull out your Grey Hunter/Long Fang/Rune Priest/Thunder Wolf Cavalry SPAM & Cheese. It’s just after playing SPAM & Cheese for a while I want some Wolf SPAM to break it up. Yes I called Space Wolves Cheese, after playing Space Wolves over a span of 4 Decades I can call my Space Puppy Army Cheese if i want, which it can be.

For a noob, who doesn't play often, I dont think his little brother is going to have the problem of being bored with space wolves.

I assume he got into them in the first place for the heroes, the brutality and the viking theme.

I think my advice to a new player would be to get a solid collection of space marines, vehicles and a unit or two of fluffy goodness to pad out his list. New, younger players, will turn into old, experienced players, only if they enjoy the game/enjoy the hobby. I can't imagine that for a new hobbyist/player that painting 60+ wolves will do anything but frustrate and annoy.

BUT I COULD BE WRONG!

Just try it out on Vassal... I wouldn't recommend going out and buying a ton of Wolves, but if you wanna try that out then more power to you.

The question is not whether the wolves are competitive. The question is can you sometimes pull a shock win despite them.

The answer is no. Armies like death company which have no scoring units can pull out victories after which you get a lot of respect. Or grot based armies can pull out straight victories despite in general being a push over.
Wolf lists though no.

You could include a few wolves for a bit of fun.

Personally I would look at thunder wolf cavalry and iron priests, take them with grey hunters and long fangs. You can then have a fairly strong army but with some wolf models for the fluff.

MFletch wrote:The question is not whether the wolves are competitive. The question is can you sometimes pull a shock win despite them.

The answer is no. Armies like death company which have no scoring units can pull out victories after which you get a lot of respect. Or grot based armies can pull out straight victories despite in general being a push over.
Wolf lists though no.

You could include a few wolves for a bit of fun.

Personally I would look at thunder wolf cavalry and iron priests, take them with grey hunters and long fangs. You can then have a fairly strong army but with some wolf models for the fluff.

I dunno, I absolutely annihilated a Blood Angels army in 5th edition with one. With I5 I was striking before them if I got the charge, and I had Long Fangs softening targets up while the Thunderwolves cracked the big targets. They do struggle versus very tough units though (eg, Termies).

Fenrisian wolves are fast and can attack fast if you have wolfkin in your army (i recomend wolf priest or thunder wolf guard battle leader before Canis)

They are very good in 6 th edition. They bubblewrap units with few hard attacks like dreadnoughts and those eldar walkers, i think they are called wraithlords, or the talos.

They can also be used to take out rhinos and msu units that hold home objectives for your opponent

Remember also that a pack of fenrisian wolves are so big and dense that they totally block line of sight of PA units behind them if all units in question is on the same ground level.

Also, with armies that deep strike its nice to "equip" your footslogging grey hunters with a 10 model wolf pack to help save them from the alpha strike hit. its unusual to find terrain in which your hunters can get cover save from all points (without full building, in which your hunters shouldnt be hiding) so by this you can just find a single wall to put them by and give them cover with your wolves from the other directions. the pod might drop and just shoot wolves if you are lucky, killing just cheap models, or it could shoot at your cover saved unit making them more survivable and you will afterwards be able to counterattack with the wolves.

Fenrisian wolves are actually fantastic, but they are not forgiving, and nothing for new players, it takes a lot of micro-management to be sucessfull