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My son is considering getting some BA assault squads as allies for his IG (though they will be painted/themed to be Raven Guard). He will be using them in our family campaign so will be facing orks with them.

Our thinking is that it will be nice to have the mobility and hitting power of BA assault marines used as mobile/offensive hammer elements as his IG are more the anvil tht provide the long range hitting power.

Question for any BA players or those familiar with them:

How feasible are smaller five man squads for this purpose?

we are thinking five men with a flamer and sgt. with hand flamer and lightning claw. These can come in and take chunks out of larger enemy units with flamers and assault, or move in to mop up weakened units that have been whittled down by IG firepower or ejected from destroyed transports. As a secondary use they have mobility to get to objectives quickly.

He is thinking of take a librarian with jumppack as the allied HQ and then some assault squads.

Thoughts?

5 man assault squads will die and/or run away. Even when they could assault out of fast vehicles, they weren't that good. Now that transports are basically useless to them, they're pretty much screwed.

Testify wrote:5 man assault squads will die and/or run away. Even when they could assault out of fast vehicles, they weren't that good. Now that transports are basically useless to them, they're pretty much screwed.

They will be using jumppacks btw.

These wouldnt be used to win the day, but more in a surgical capacity to whittle down, finish off weakened units, chase down dug in targets across the board camping objectives, etc.

He is seeing lots of situations in which he pops a transport( I use a lot of trukks) or blasts most of a target and would like to then jump up an finish off the stragglers, etc. Seems like the assault troops would have the mobility (and two flamer templates) to do this more so then anything in his own list.

They would also be used as defensive units: Keep them out of LOS but within jump distance of IG line, and when orks get close jump out to intervene and flame away, etc.

Still no?

As a relatively recent returnee to the game but not lacking in experience and a BA player.

Assault squads are only any good offensively in large numbers. I have persisted in 5 man squads for almost 6 months before upgrading recently to 10 man units. While they're not in any way to be considered OP, there is a marked increase in durability and damage output. As one would logically asume I guess!

Your plan is viable, but the unit itself will disappear if put under any sort of pressure at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An honour guard would allow you to field more flamers for not hugely extra points BTW with the added bonus of a mini priest and further more flexible upgrade options.

CT GAMER wrote:
These wouldnt be used to win the day, but more in a surgical capacity to whittle down, finish off weakened units, chase down dug in targets across the board camping objectives, etc.

He is seeing lots of situations in which he pops a transport( I use a lot of trukks) or blasts most of a target and would like to then jump up an finish off the stragglers, etc. Seems like the assault troops would have the mobility (and two flamer templates) to do this more so then anything in his own list.

They would also be used as defensive units: Keep them out of LOS but within jump distance of IG line, and when orks get close jump out to intervene and flame away, etc.

Still no?

40k is a game of extremes. A single assault squad won't do squat. They have very little damage output (against your orks who've just been popped they'd get 15 attacks, 7.5 hit [orks are WS4, right?], 3.75 wounded and killed. And orks are what, 6 points a model? Those guys have killed at most 20 points of model, and are almost definitely going to be bogged down and killed, especially against orks. Their mobility is only really useful at at army-wide level, when there are dozens of them on the field and they can get to where they need with their special weapons, synchronised with their fast vehicles.

It used to be that rough riders fulfilled that roll for guard. They have S5 I5 power weapon attacks on the charge, and with cavelry's charge range could come on the board and completely ruin whatever mech unit is trying to spoil my gunline. Problem is, you can't assault from reserve any more, so rough riders will simply die too quickly.

Ogryns sound like they might be what you/your son is after. They're very, very tough, and pack a hell of a punch in CC. If those guys charge something turn 2, don't expect the combat to be over until turn 5 (unless it ends in the ogryn's favour of course ).

If you really want to use allies, I suppose allied terminators with LCs might be what you're after - charge stuff and slice it to bits.

The unit you described would actually be good at Deep Striking next to some form of the Orks stand back units (Lootas, Big Guns, etc) and roasting them with the flamers.

Counter assault though, is a terrible reason to buy a unit. You spend a lot of points on something that may never occur if no one comes their way.

So potentially a good unit, but maybe not for the reasons you imagined.

5 man assault squads die too easily same goes with adding a librarian.

The reason why RAS squads are known from the BA is our ability to take lots of them and how they operate with a priest tagging along with them. 1-2 full RAS squads + a priest or something is killer.

Alternatively Dante + SG for 425-455 points is a beefy little beat stick. If ya can afford it toss in another 75 to give them FNP... Alternatively DC + Res is another good HQ+Troop choice from BA codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For pure counter assault usage - Death Company with bolters on foot is the best your gonna get.

Saddly thay are correct. To use them for your intended purpose of finishing off smaller squads would work but the problem is that they get there 1 mabyt 2 rounds of combat the outher squad will normaly die but then you bog/kill them with the blob squad that rerouted to there position if not then you have a 5 man squad behind lines that will die. the only thing that could help is deploying them with a Storm raven. It provides extreme mobility and firepower to pull them out of a jam
saddly if you want to keep them alive and them have to be delt with you are going to need 10 man squads, 5 and a SR, or Vets. Trust me I <3 Vets like no outher and when they land they will kill everything.

So saying that take a squad of assault marines, a HQ Chaplin (if you are using them for High value target hunters or mop units for the reroles) and Van vets or Stern Vets

Thinking about it you could always take DC They have a heavy hit in CC and can be tacticly flexable with PW/Bolter Ext and jumppacks. Problem Is a 5 man team costs about as much as a 10 man RAS... but if you are looking for pure hatred and stoping power or a simple fire and forget unit I would say thoes are your boys.

that and Chaplins are awesome with them and they can get a Spec Sqd Chaplin.
and if you want to run them with your gunline run them with bolters and they still have a good amout of CC power

I would run this one of two ways. A 5-man squad would be ok for taking out the last remains of anything that gets a bit too close to the IG gunline... assuming that they're whittled down enough. However you'd have to resist the temptation of charging them straight in and hold them away for a few turns... and against a proper Ork horde, they can't be everywhere at once.

If you go 10-man, you can afford to take the fight out a little and use them as a blocker, to stop any unit that looks like it will be a threat and hold them up behind the rest of the horde. You'll also still be able to get 2 flamers in the unit, and with the Librarian you're still only looking at about 300 points.

The Death Company option is a sound one tactically, but doesn't sound right for Raven Guard. You'll have to make a judgement call on that one.

Super Ready wrote:

The Death Company option is a sound one tactically, but doesn't sound right for Raven Guard. You'll have to make a judgement call on that one.

As a user of a RG army based off the BA dex, I plan on using them painted write and justify their inclusion because RG are known to have unstable geneseed so they are marines that are sacrificing themselves before the devolve into monsters.

IG mech list: You'll probably want them in a razorback to fit the list. Otherwise DC in a raider if you want an assault threat, though this costs a load of points.

IG flyer list:Maybe bring a storm raven. This will be a fun gamble but a high points one.

IG infantry list: Bring ICs. Marines will boost any guard units that they join, if you have blob squad suddenly they can become fearless or have ATSKNF.
Then assault marines are a bit light by themselves. DC with jump packs can be better but are expensive.
I would definitely consider honour guard, they are 5 models they can deep strike safely take 4 shooty weapons and bring their own priest which can give FNP to the assault squad as well.
Scouts with camo cloaks should be considered, as foot slogging guard do struggle with mobility.

Lighting claw is not worth the points compared to a power sword, as you get one less attack. Meltabombs are useful. hand flamer is just rubbish, whereas the inferno pistol is probably too many points for a very short ranged weapon.
Flamer is not flexible enough. If you find some bunched up infantry then this will be ok, I guess against orks, but their cover saves are not that great.