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Evening Dakka, I'm new to the hobby and I'm starting with a thousand point Black Templars force. I'll be buying the Space Marine Battle force box as a base and adding some extra units to bulk it out. As well as the look of the Black Templars their fighting style is what made me choose them so I'd like to keep it close combat based. I'm not sure what other people near me play so optimising it isn't an issue and considering I live about 20 minutes from Warhammer World I imagine there would be a large mix. I'll be buying the Battle Force box so the units from that aren't subject to much change but I could swap the Terminator squad if necessary, any input you have is welcome.

HQ

Marshal
Power Fist
Storm Shield
Frag Grenades-121

Emperor's Champion
Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds-140

ELITES

Terminator Squad
2x Cyclone Missile Launcher
3x Chain Fist
5x Tank Hunters- 280

TROOPS

9x Initiate
CCW and Bolt Pistol
Power Fist and Bolt Pistol
Meltagun
9x Frag-178

Rhino
Extra Armor
Smoke Launchers-58

9x Initiate
CCW and Bolt Pistol
Power Fist and Bolt Pistol
Meltagun
9x Frag-178

Rhino
Extra Armor
Smoke Launchers-58

meesh84,

I have been a BT player for a long while, I think you are taking some pretty good options in your army right now, but there are a couple things I would change.

I would find a way to make sure your Marshall is in Terminator armor and has an Adamanite Mantle, which makes him immune to instant death from high strengh weapons such as a lascannon, melta gum, power fist and thunder hammer. That forces someone to cause all 3 wounds before killing him when you have a 2+/3++ save. I would run him attached to my Terminator squad and have him out front so he is taking any of the bigger saves from AP2 or AP1 weapons that would cause you to take an invulnerable save. If you don't want him to take all the saves you can just Look Out Sir them to a terminator easily enough.

I would drop 2 of the chain fists and run them only with 1. If you are assaulting a vehicle you are already getting 4 swings on the charge per terminator, hitting a vehicle a 3+ should be easy, and with Tank Hunter you can reroll your armor penetration result even in CC with the Power Fists and the Chain Fist.

Also I would drop the Extra armor to save yourself 10 more points to put toward the Marshall.

Your Crusader squads to me(my opinion or course) are setup perfectly. 7-9 guys, with a power fist, melta gun and frags. If you have to drop 1 guy from a unit to get the points for the Marshall I would do that. That would just be the rhino I make sure my Emperor's Champion goes in.

Welcome to the Eternal Crusade. First, I have to point out that your list is 1013 (though it's late and my math may suffer as a result), and I'm not sure how your area is towards point leniency. Next, let me direct you to www.implausiblenature.net a website by Marshal Laeroth, and the Bolter and Chainsword BT sub-forum for additional resources on the Black Templars.

Now to the list. I agree with Roguejm11 that your crusader squads are looking great for CC with rhinos. Unfortunately, with 6th edition, we aren't able to assault the turn we disembark from rhinos, so make sure to take that into account. For the HQ, I would recommend a Reclusiarch over a Marshal as we once again need chaplains for rerolls, and for the maul/rosarius, though a storm shield is IMO better, but expensive at low points. As Roguejm11 recommended, I would put your HQ choice in terminator armor if they are going with the terminators, but if they are riding with a squad (I assume they are because of the 9 man squads), artificer armor will let them hitch a ride, though not give them the cheap terminator honors that comes with terminator armor.

Here is my suggestion (excluding a 2+ save because I don't think you can really take much out without hurting the list somewhat)
Reclusiarch-122
Power Fist
Bolt Pistol
Frags

The pistol is there to give you an extra attack should your opponent have 4+ armor.

For the terminators, I second dropping 2 chainfists to give yourself 10 points to play with, and because you already kill stuff with powerfists and tank hunters mitigates the fact that PF can only glance AV 14, though IMO doesn't fix the problem completely (Though I don't know your group, so I don't know how many people have monoliths/land raiders at 1000). Since they are walking, the CML gives them much needed extra range. However, with the change to tank hunters and CML no longer being S9 against vehicles with it, assault cannons would save you points and provide dakka to increase the chance of hitting a flyer or mow down infantry at the cost of range. That said, assault cannons are my personal favorites, and magnets are your friend when it comes to terminators.

Good luck, and no pity, no remorse, no fear, battle-brother

Thank you both for the help, as you could probably see my original plan was to have the 2 characters join the Crusader Squads and quickly get into the fray while the Terminators foot slogged and provided fire support with their CMLs. I've made a few changes based on the information you provided, how are things looking now?

HQ

Marshal
Storm Shield
Power Weapon
Adamantine Mantle
Frag grenades-146
He will be protecting the Terminators as you suggested but I decided against Terminator armour for a couple of reasons. Firstly it is too expensive and secondly he now has ID immunity and a 3+ invulnerable save and I can always Look Out Sir! him as you said. I've also taken away his power fist as he is in a squad with 5 of them and given him a power weapon instead, this gives me a few more points, uses his I5 for attacks and allows some flexibility, I'm considering either a maul or sword leaning towards the maul, what are your recommendations?

Emperor's Champion
Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds-140

ELITES

Terminator Squad
1x Cyclone Missile Launcher
1x Assault Cannon
1x Chain Fist
5x Tank Hunters- 265
Removed one CML and added an Assault Cannon, this freed some points and gives a bit more flexibility to the squad although I've heard that mixing weapons is a bad idea, how is it here? I could swap a Crusade squads meltagun for a plasma and get a CML back or I could go for 2 Assault Cannons. Removed 2 Chain fists although I could remove all of them and keep the Crusade squad meltagun and the CML.

TROOPS

9x Initiate
CCW and Bolt Pistol
Power Fist and Bolt Pistol
Meltagun
9x Frag-178

Rhino
Smoke Launchers-53

8x Initiate
CCW and Bolt Pistol
Power Fist and Bolt Pistol
Meltagun
8x Frag-161
The Emperor's Champion will go with this squad.

Rhino
Smoke Launchers-53

I think you did a good job merging both of our thoughts together to come up with what could a pretty solid list. It is definitely a list that I would take in a game.

I think leaving the Marshall with Power Sword is a good idea, but check out what BTNeophyte said with the Chaplains. Because if you can get a Chap for the same or cheaper and give him the same upgrades, I would do that. Litanies of Hate would give you PE with the Terminators which would allow you to re-roll 1's to hit with both ranged and melee attacks. Would really make them scary at 1000 size games.

I do agree with BTNeophyte BIG time on this one, Magnatize your Terminator arms at the shoulders, I have 15 BT Terminators and every single one of them is like that. I can swap to Power Fists, Hammers, Storm Shields, Assault Cannons, Heavy Flamers, Lighting Claws in seconds. (Ebay is your friend for additional arms and shoulder pads)

Rare Earth Magnets are what I got, circular ones, I think I went with the smallest or 2nd smallest they had.

Thank you both for the help. I'll look into the magnets for my Terminators and the websites you suggested.
Cheers

I do have to point out 1 thing Roguejm11. The chaplain does not give PE to his squad (that's SW chappys), but gives rerolls to hit on the charge.

BT fluff is about assault, which you can build a reasonable list around.
Currently their best build, the one that holds up best against current codices, however, is going real shooty. Termies with CML and cheap typhoons in particular stand out.
Just wanted to point this out.

Then you should read the FAQ off the GW website this is important.

Final point is they struggle to bring things to deal with flyers. Also they can not bring pyskers apart from grey knights, this people would suggest is an issue currently.

No rumours about a new codex, hopefully you get a new one soon

I'm really liking the list! Glad to see someone starting Templars too .

I wanted to add in that a chappy will do much better than a marshal. Thats just in my past experiences. People already discussed that I think.

I hope you enjoy playing templars!

BTNeophyte wrote:I do have to point out 1 thing Roguejm11. The chaplain does not give PE to his squad (that's SW chappys), but gives rerolls to hit on the charge.

Your right your right! Sorry about that.

So ya, if you can get the same upgrades to a Chaplain that you can the Marshall, I would say the Chap is a better option.

I'll play about with the points and see if I can get a Chaplain to work. Again, thank you for the input.

I have added a small contingent of BT as allies for my Dark Angels Deathwing army, and am happy to say that I am deeply satisfied with them (for their role of course). I went for the more "fluffy" appraoch of a 14 man crusader squad, in a crusader, with a chaplain, and having read the suggestions, I would definitely take a chaplain over the marshall for low points games. Those re-rolls are an absolute life-saver, especially if you chaplain gets challenged. I have mine kitted with artificer armor (so only I1 can crack him so they go at the same time at least), power fist, bolt pistol, and frag grenades. The re-rolls and abilty to run full steam ahead at anyone who takes a shot at you is nifty, especially if an army like guard cracks your rhinos right away. Needless to say, your army looks pretty bada**

Good luck!

-VardenV2

Meesh84,

You said you were new to the hobby, so I wouldn't say jump right in and buy another 300 bucks worth of stuff to get to a 2000 point game level. But I wanted to drop this list on your post just to show you. This is currently the list that I am using with my Black Templar, and thus far it has been pretty amazing. There are 2 variations, rhinos or drop pods.

HQ
185 - Master of Sanc (Power Fist, Storm Shield, Adamantite Mantle) OR Master of Sanc (Power Fist, Storm Shield, Adamantite Mantle, Artifier Armor)
140 - Emperior's Champion AAC

Elite
270 - Sword Brethern Terminator Squad (x1 Chain Fist, x2 Cyclone Missile Launchers, Tank Hunters)

Troop
214 - x8 Crusaders (x1 Power Fist, x1 Melta Gun, Frag Grenades) - Rhino(smoke) OR x9 Crusaders in a Drop Pod instead of the Rhino
214 - x8 Crusaders (x1 Power Fist, x1 Melta Gun, Frag Grenades) - Rhino(smoke) OR x9 Crusaders in a Drop Pod instead of the Rhino
211 - x8 Crusaders (x1 Power Fist, x1 Melta Gun, Frag Grenades) - Rhino(no smoke!, needed the points) OR x9 Crusaders in a Drop Pod instead of the Rhino
95 - x5 Crusaders (x1 Lascannon)

Fast Attack
85 - Typhoon Landspeeder (Cyclone Missile Launcher, Multi-Melta)
85 - Typhoon Landspeeder (Cyclone Missile Launcher, Multi-Melta)

Heavy Support
250 - Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought ( x2 TL Lascannons, x1 Cyclone Missile Launcher)
250 - Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought ( x2 TL Lascannons, x1 Cyclone Missile Launcher)

1999 Total

But play what you like and get a feel for the game. Black Templar are a pretty good assault army, but they have a LOT of shooting power if you want them to.
This list has 5 Lascannon shots and 12 Missiles per turn max all at 48'' range, but still has some of the assault element to get the job done.

Roguejm, do you kit your crusaders with bolters or with pistols and chainswords? I can see both working, but your list seems like a shooty based list, more like regular SMs.

-VardenV2

I would not ever outfit Black Templar Marines with a Bolter.

Bolters on Templars is Heresy! jk

Stormtrooper520 wrote:Bolters on Templars is Heresy! jk

I figured as much, but you did say they have a lot of shooty potential, so I was mislead a little. I would give them pistols and swords too. Otherwise, why bother haha. Just play regular SM at that point .

-VardenV2


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pardon me, Rogue said that.

Again, thank you all for your input and advice. I'll be outfitting my Templars with BPs and CCWs so no need to worry on that front. I'll also have a play about with the points and see if I can get a Chaplain instead of a Marshall. To get a Chaplain I might have to decrease the size of the Crusade squads. How low can I safely go with out reducing combat ability too much.

I know this is a year old post but it has been incredibly helpful to me as a new BT player, its hard to find help as most players have moved to Space Puppies or Shiny Vampires. Most of my BT are bolters, however i still have 10 initiates to build so they can rock the CCW and BP set.