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Hello dakkadakka,

I've been messing around with a list lately and have been trying to find the right balance of units for a semi-competitive list.
As being a really noob to 40k, understand that my choices may seem downright idiotic to those of you who have played for a long time.

I just ask for some constructive criticism. Thanks.

HQ:
Pedro Kantor: 175

Troops:
Tac Squad: Melta, MM, Combi-Flamer on Sarge, (Rhino) 185 (215)
Tac Squad: Melta, HB, Combi-Flamer on Sarge, (Rhino) 185 (215)
Tac Squad: Melta, MM, Combi-Flamer on Sarge, (Rhino) 185 (215)

Elites:
Sternguard Veterans: 2x Combi-Melta, 2x Combi-Plasma, Powerfist (Drop Pod) 295 (330)

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder Squadron: 2x Typhoon Speeders 180
Assault Marine Squad: 5x Marines, Sarge with SS, Powerfist 140

Total: 1485

scrabblez wrote:Pedro Kantor:

Given the emphasis on Warlords, Pedro is too easily killed, having a PF. Switch to a Libby with SS and choice of psy-power.

scrabblez wrote:Tac Squad: Melta, MM, Combi-Flamer on Sarge, (Rhino) 185 (215)
Tac Squad: Melta, HB, Combi-Flamer on Sarge, (Rhino) 185 (215)
Tac Squad: Melta, MM, Combi-Flamer on Sarge, (Rhino) 185 (215)

As melta happy as these guys are, why not Vulkan? Also, rhinos now blow. Toss 'em.

scrabblez wrote:Sternguard Veterans: 2x Combi-Melta, 2x Combi-Plasma, Powerfist (Drop Pod) 295 (330)

Lose the PF as half the time, you're using Rapid Fire.

scrabblez wrote:Assault Marine Squad: 5x Marines, Sarge with SS, Powerfist 140

5 dudes is too small. Up to the full 10 with rhino points and include the 2 special toys.

It's an alright starting point. You could play it for a few games & see where you're lacking, and make small adjustments from there. You might as well use your 15 spare points at least, give all your tac sergeants meltabombs or something. Meltabombs are way more useful now that you hit on weapon skill, and can use them on MC's. Great way to spend 5 points.

My own thoughts for your consideration:
I don't think you'll find the 5 assault marines very useful. The points could be better used on a Stormtalon, or something else.
I don't really like running Kantor now. Giving up combat tactics is too high a price for me. For your list, I'd probably start with a cheap Librarian and see how you go. Keep in mind that by my understanding of the rules he cannot cast buffing powers on the turn he drop pods in, as they need to be cast at the start of the movement phase. Caught me out when my opponent called it the first time I tried. As such, I don't drop him with my sternguard any more. He does fine in a tac squad or termi squad though. I've also had luck using a Captain w/relic blade & artificer armour for killing off characters in challenges, but that really depends on your usual opponents.
I've been having GREAT results with a pair of multimelta attack bikes. I've now modified all my standard lists to fit them in
I've gone off using Rhinos completely, and I don't miss them. They're an easy source of first blood in my experience so far and they weren't really adding much to my list any more, now that marines can shoot out to 24" their threat range is much better. They are no longer a no-brainer choice, in my opinion.

I concur... As long as you are going to drop pod the sternguard in, I would be surprised to see them live. Therefore Pedro is non-necessary.

If you insist on assault marines, perhaps a chaplain with a jump pack. Personnally lose pedro for two razorbacks. Split your sternguard into two squads. And then lose the assault marines for a MM dread or ironclad dread with 2 meltas. Put that in the drop pod and let it die. Just hope it can take out a vehicle on the first turn. The get the cheap librarian and let him be a defensive shield for your army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the purpose is to run Pedro, how about 2 5-man sternguard each with 2 ML. Put them in an aegis defense line and then have Pedro man the quad flak gun. If you put an objective there, you have a tough nut for an opponent to crack.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Since I don't have a Storm Talon (nor the money to get one at the moment) how would swapping the assault squad out for a 5 man missile launcher dev squad?

I have a pretty limited model set, and not a lot of money to grab anything new for a bit.

The Devs should work fine for you.
In you Sternguard I would take all Combi Meltas just becouse of the Bunker/Vehical busting just outa the pod
I would Say the Libby for the HQ, Or take a shooty Capitan and role him with the Sternguard in the pod (posible Termi Armor...
As for the Tac Squads I would drop the MM and just take a ML/HB so when you tac squad them out you can have them cover the outher half for there advancing
I would take an Aegis line with Quad Auto cannon just to cover your guys and skyfire (if you cant afford one there easly proxied and you can bit box the gun together)

You aren't taking enough sternguard squads to make Pedro Kantor worth it, IMO.

Thanks for all of the ideas.

In all honesty, after testing this out a bit, I have decided to drop Pedro in favor of a Libby or a Captain, I'm not sure which to try yet. It just seems like a much better option.

If I go with a Libby, he'll probably go with a Tac Squad that'll be grabbing an objective near the center of the board, giving me as much extra help as possible.

Captain might go with the Sternguard as a bit of an extra punch of the enemy get's too close.

The Sternguard I'll reconfigure and keep. Probably all 5x combi-meltas like was suggested. If you're wondering why Sternguard and not something like Assault Termies, the answer is simple: I don't have the models. Plus, I like the fact I can shoot something to hell for each different situation that arises.


Now as for the Assault Marines, riddle me this: if I were to bring them as Death Company allies with some HQ (captain with jeptack?), how would that pan out do you think?

Granted I'd have to shift points around all over the place, but I could easily figure it out.

If that idea seems out, I can always just do my 4x Missile launcher Dev squad to sit in the back and rain down missile hell all day.

I would go libby, as captains are under powered and 4ml squad. As for rhinos, I don't agree. They are do what they are designed to do, which is TRANSPORT things. I think people still have the 5th ed mentality, which is to use them as bunkers, And now that you can buy actual bunkers, people are dropping them. If you use them to get up to 24 or closer, you will find that they are incredibly cost effective.

Take a Reclusiarch + jump pack with them,
! they will be a Bolt magnet but get them in CC and you will see a wholde diffrent side . All of my Armys start with the DC Core and they have yet to let me down

Armadeus wrote:I would go libby, as captains are under powered and 4ml squad. As for rhinos, I don't agree. They are do what they are designed to do, which is TRANSPORT things. I think people still have the 5th ed mentality, which is to use them as bunkers, And now that you can buy actual bunkers, people are dropping them. If you use them to get up to 24 or closer, you will find that they are incredibly cost effective.

Yeah, the libby seems like a better choice. More versatility for a decent price. And I do like Rhinos. It keeps my marines from getting mowed down or wrapped up in combat early. Granted they MAY grant a First Blood, but that's not always the case, as my Land Speeders can typically pop a vehicle turn 1.

BloodAngels Brother wrote:Take a Reclusiarch + jump pack with them,
! they will be a Bolt magnet but get them in CC and you will see a wholde diffrent side . All of my Armys start with the DC Core and they have yet to let me down

What would you drop then to fit them in? DC and a Reculsiarch are pricey...

So Droping the Assault Sqd the 15 free floating points and taking the PF off of the Stern you only need 50 points for basic Reclusiarch and DC
Take off of the Combi Flamers from the SGTS and you should have the 20 points from switching kantor to a No named HQ

Taking everything into consideration since this thread got started, how does this list look?

Vanilla Marines:
HQ:
Librarian: Force Dome, Gate of Infinity: 100

Troops:
Tac Squad: MM, Melta, (Rhino): 175 (210)
Tac Squad: HB, Melta, (Rhino): 175 (210)
Tac Squad: HB, Melta: 175

Elites:
Sternguard Veterans: 8x Combi-Meltas, (Drop Pod): 290 (325)

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder Squadron: 2x Typhoon Speeders

BA Allies:
HQ:
Reculsiarch: Jet Pack, Melta Bombs: 160

Troops:
Death Company: 4x Models, Jet Packs: 140

Total: 1500

The Librarian would drop in with the Sternguard, probably at a weak point in a gunline or at a farside objective to keep my opponent off it and to give my troops time to grab it. Troops in Rhinos would head out to secure objectives as well or flank down the sides. The foot-slogging marines will grab a close objective, probably set up in some ruins and hold all game. Land Speeders would do what they do: sit back, move into a shooting position if need be and fire missiles and bolters all day. I could have them hit transports or go after lightly held objectives late game for the contest. Reclusiarch and the Death Company will either jump from cover to cover or Deep Strike in to hit an objective or reinforce a weakened hold on one.

Thoughts?

Seems solid to me. Try a few games and see how you like it.

BloodAngels Brother wrote:Seems solid to me. Try a few games and see how you like it.

Should get a game or two in this weekend. Will let you know how it goes .

Tell me how the HBs perform. I've been considering them, but I haven't been able to convince myself to drop my MLs.

Armadeus wrote:Tell me how you like the HBs. I've been considering them, but I haven't been able to convince myself to drop my MLs.

They're great at dishing out a lot of shots on targets in cover and are nice for Overwatch if you get charged. Even can be used to ping stuff with lots of saves to death.