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So I have a unit of space marines, they are assaulted by a squad of wraiths all with lashwhips, I have models not in base contact at init4, they move and swing, but when they move into base contact they are reduced to init1? So they cannot swing.

Reading the rules for assault I gathered that at the init step of any model they move and swing, one before the other admittedly, but when the init step starts they do both functions.

Looking for anwsers please help!

Noone really knows yet from a RAW perspective.

There's even stranger cases as well - Captain (I5) + Marines charge some wraiths, 1 of who has a whip. Only Captain is in B2B with whip, so we skip over straight to I4 marines who kill the wraith with the whip in their swing.

Wraith is dead, so capt is back to I5, but we are now at the I3 step. What happens to his attacks?

There's been so many questions about things that modify initiative steps, that you'd assume it will go into the BRB FAQ when it comes out.

Never assume such stuff.
If you want something to be in the FAQ drop GW a mail and ask.
Unless they get asked about it a lot they won't answer it.

You can look over some of the recent FoB Tournament FAQs for an idea on this one, at least until an official FAQ comes out. They have been playing that when you start your I step, you finish your I step. If you are reduced to a lower I, it would not apply until next round.

And the other fix to make the initiative rule set complete is to include all models with an initiative X (or higher where they have not yet acted) may act at initiative step X

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:So I have a unit of space marines, they are assaulted by a squad of wraiths all with lashwhips, I have models not in base contact at init4, they move and swing, but when they move into base contact they are reduced to init1? So they cannot swing.

They still swing.

A model makes its pile in moves and attacks when its initiative is reached. (P.23 for the details)

The BRB equates making pile in moves the same time you make that models attacks.

So once you start piling in you will swing at that initiative.

DeathReaper wrote:

Kapitalist-Pig wrote:So I have a unit of space marines, they are assaulted by a squad of wraiths all with lashwhips, I have models not in base contact at init4, they move and swing, but when they move into base contact they are reduced to init1? So they cannot swing.

They still swing.

A model makes its pile in moves and attacks when its initiative is reached. (P.23 for the details)

The BRB equates making pile in moves the same time you make that models attacks.

So once you start piling in you will swing at that initiative.

That's not really true. Take power fists as an example. They areI4 but strike at I1. Pile in at 4 strike at 1

Sothas wrote:That's not really true. Take power fists as an example. They areI4 but strike at I1. Pile in at 4 strike at 1

Not true. re-read P.23

"Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached" P.23
"Note that certain situations, abilities and weapons can modify a model's Initiative." P.23
"any model whose Initiative is equal to the value of the current Initiative step...must rnake a Pile In move" P.23
"then Sergeant Adrax strikes with his power fist last at Initiative step 1." P.23


Certain situations, abilities and weapons can modify a model's Initiative, the Power Fist modifies the models Initiative for the purposes of Pile in and attacking.

Agreed, I'd play it pile in at I4 and swing at I1. For the case of the captain the model simply doesn't get to attack.

That sounds a bit harsh. Have the captain attack at ini1 because that was what it was modified to for that assault phase

That or he gets I3, as he starts swinging as soon as he's untangled from the whip.

So that means Grey Knights with Halberds just don't get to attack then, since they attack at I6 and pile in at I4?

Makes total sense, I'm sure they would design it just that way.

"Certain situations, abilities and weapons can modify a model's Initiative, the Power Fist modifies the models Initiative for the purposes of Pile in and attacking. "

You attack and pile-in at the same time.

They act on their modified initiative. They don't get to pile in at 4 and attack on 1. 6th edition didn't change how modified initiative works. Simply because there are pile in moves on their initiative doesn't give you an unmodified initiative.

daedalus-templarius wrote:So that means Grey Knights with Halberds just don't get to attack then, since they attack at I6 and pile in at I4?

Makes total sense, I'm sure they would design it just that way.

"Certain situations, abilities and weapons can modify a model's Initiative, the Power Fist modifies the models Initiative for the purposes of Pile in and attacking. "

You attack and pile-in at the same time.

This interpretation of the rules negates several existing sets of abilities and Wargear, such as Tyranid lashwhips and Necron whipcoils. If your models could attack "while piling in", they effectively have the authority to swing before getting into b2b with models that have wargear which may modify their initiative value. This would invalidate such wargear.

Boneblade wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:So that means Grey Knights with Halberds just don't get to attack then, since they attack at I6 and pile in at I4?
Makes total sense, I'm sure they would design it just that way.
"Certain situations, abilities and weapons can modify a model's Initiative, the Power Fist modifies the models Initiative for the purposes of Pile in and attacking. "
You attack and pile-in at the same time.

This interpretation of the rules negates several existing sets of abilities and Wargear, such as Tyranid lashwhips and Necron whipcoils. If your models could attack "while piling in", they effectively have the authority to swing before getting into b2b with models that have wargear which may modify their initiative value. This would invalidate such wargear.

It would nerf them, but it wouldn't completely invalidate them.
RAW, you attack and pile in at same time. The rules are just extremely poorly written, but that is the only intrerpretation that actually works (there's huge thread about it).

Most people play Lashwhips and whipcoils so that when model piles-in to b2b with them, the model piling it will not get attacks at this point, but instead will get their attacks at I1. But this is HWYPI. RAW, it's huge mess.