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Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





I'm trying to figure out point efficiencies for my Tyranids.

How do I render large blasts, blasts, and flamers?

How would I compare the efficiencies between shooting based units and assault based units?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 07:48:42


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Brainy Zoanthrope






How many targets do you think that you will get under a template, blast or large blast - (3/0 to 3/0 to 5 allowing for scatter?)

How many rounds of shooting and assult do you think you will get off before the unit dies. (depends on role and oponent, and movement)

Math hammer is best when you are comparing different sorts of unit for the same role. Comparing different units results in you making big assumptions, and the results depend more on the assumptions (will I fight one combat with these units or 2) rather than the actual statistics.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Vallejo, CA

Yeah, templates stink for mathhammer. As mentioned, you're just going to have to put some assumptions in your parameters. You're already used to doing this (like assuming your opponent has cover, and of a certain type, or not), but somehow, it feels ickier here.

There are a few guiding principles, though. One of them is displacement. A 40k mini sits on a 20mm (roughly .4" in radius) base, and can be displaced up to 2" apart and still maintain coherency.

This means that it is possible for your opponent to spread out in such a way where they will only take a single hit per shot of a small blast template weapon, as the 1.5" radius of a small blast template is (much) less than the potential 2.4" of maximum displacement. However, a large blast template has a radius of 2.5", which means it's impossible for a large blast template hitting in the middle of a unit to score fewer than 3 hits.

From there, you can look at other bases. For example, at maximum displacement, anything on a 40mm base will cause a large blast to hit only one model, and, of course, a monstrous creature will only ever take one hit, and the like.

From here, you can mess with your parameters, as it's theoretically possible to hit what, 25 models with a single large blast, or something like that? Of course, with any of these assumptions, you have to start questioning how likely it is that you will be in those circumstances.

One way to get around this is with ranges. For example, I like to assume that a small blast template will hit between 1 and 3 models most of the time you shoot it, and 3-5 for large blasts. Of course, I also like to be conservative here, because I cannot guarantee that I'm going to be up against an opponent who doesn't know what displacement means. When that does happen, I'll just have to be pleasantly surprised.

Another thing to consider here is the scatter+BS subtraction over target size. This actually makes calculating blast weapons versus vehicles not THAT difficult (depending on how big of a vehicle you're shooting at), at least to get a ballpark figure. With infantry it's a lot tougher, as it depends much more on what other units are near the target unit (in what displacement) that the template could scatter over onto.

As for flamer templates, it's a crap-shoot. More than blast template weapons, I take into consideration how those templates are getting there. A pinpoint deepstrike squad, like sternguard in a drop pod, or iconed CSM, or even stormtroopers with airborne assault, I can pretty safely assume something like 5-8 hits per shot. In a unit that will be used solely as a counter-assault role, I like to move it up to more like 8 and less like 5. In an offensive role, or for general use, I generally don't calculate higher than 3. Personal experience has taught me not to expect more than this.

It's all rather subjective, though, as each different person is going to bring their own initial assumptions to the calculation. The best thing you can do, I guess, is to just be transparent about your assumptions.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 08:45:18


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Play games. You'll soon get a feel for when templates are useful and when they are most certainly not.

In the course of games you can record average number of models under flamers, compared to number of units that would be in range of normal shooting. You can use this to calculate models.
   
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The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

With MC bases, you can calculate the possability of scatter with small and large blasts.


On a scatter, 1/3 of shots will be a direct hit, 2/3 will scatter with an average of a 7" scatter(minus BS)

If the enemy is BS4, the Scatter will be somewhere between 0 and 8 inches after BS reduction.

Make a 6x6 grid with the numbers 1-6 down each colum and accross each row. This represents all the possable results of a 2D6 roll(so this is a very useful chart to know)



For Flamers there is no way of calculating them, because it is entirely dependent on outside factors.

I always assume a flamer will get 4 hits on a unit, its nearly impossable to make them get less then that if proper spacing is used.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/11 15:46:18


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