Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Before I get started, you should know that I started playing fantasy in 8th edition but had gotten the 7th ed Empire Army Book just to look at a long time ago. I was just reading through it to see the differences between then and now. I could not help but realize that it looks like Empire took a huge nerf in 8th ed. I mean look at all of the magical banners! The troops were cheaper, the warmachines cheaper, and the priests got more bound spells at a higher power. I am really trying to learn 8th edition so I really don't know, but is Empire truly equal to the other 8th edition books?

Actually so far the 8th edition books have been really balanced and not making armies over powered as new codex might do in 40k. In fact there were a lot of whining about the 7th edition empire, mortars used big templates and were cheap was the number 1 complaint and hit like a truck. But ask any ogre player and they will tell you their book has been a huge improvement, same would probably go with most TK players. So it's more balanced and so far kudos to whoever has been writing the 8th edition books .

A few 7th edition armies really needed that nerf stick taken to them, alot of gimmick builds alongside some badly costed units.

8th Really is balanced though. I play OnG and Ogres from time to time.

It depends on who you believe.

Basically if you are the type of person who uses the word nerf and is liable to ranting endlessly with no regard to what others may say, then Empire is now terrible.

If you are not, and are prepared to experiment to find a build that suits your style of play, then the new book is rather good.

I haven't played against Empire with their new book yet, but I was very glad to see some of the changes. As a High Elf player I was almost to the point of refusing to play against their old book. I was sick to death of half my army dissapearing turn 1 every freakin game. The only time I beat an Empire army with their 7th edition book was in the scenario to take out the banners. Otherwise I lost everygame.

I'll second what the other guys have said. 8th Edition books have done a great job balancing things out so there doesn't seem to be anything hugely broken.

riverhawks32 wrote:Before I get started, you should know that I started playing fantasy in 8th edition but had gotten the 7th ed Empire Army Book just to look at a long time ago. I was just reading through it to see the differences between then and now. I could not help but realize that it looks like Empire took a huge nerf in 8th ed. I mean look at all of the magical banners! The troops were cheaper, the warmachines cheaper, and the priests got more bound spells at a higher power. I am really trying to learn 8th edition so I really don't know, but is Empire truly equal to the other 8th edition books?

The priests got better spells that now can't be dispelled in the opponents magic phase with 1 dice.
Detachments got a huge buff.
Priests can cast all 3 spells in one magic phase, forcing you to use your dispell dice where your afraid (reroll to wound or that ward save?)
Generals and captains got a huge buff.
Witch hunters are amazing cheap heros.
Steam tank got cheaper, now has a chance against spells, but T6.
Artillery is fine.
Troops cost more because WP and AL got so much better that they now hurt. Halberdiers are sooooooo deadly.

Well it is a good thing I know this now For a second there I was worried that I would never be able to win. So far, I have lost most my games (fantasy is so backwards for me), but now I think I am starting to get the hang of it....never mind getting mastery over Empire just yet.

They are by no means nerfed. It is my expereince that Empire is acctualy just as deadly as ever, even if they recived some measure of nerf to certain things.

Most people, myself included, thought when they first looked at the book that Empire was nerfed. I mean, the places you first look are at things like the cost of core troops and our beloved war machines, and they all went up in price, while remaining exactly the same or actually getting worse. Then you see we lost a few of our favourite old tricks, like the near unkillable War Alter, the mass of dispel dice given by Warrior Priests, and that Steam Tanks can now actually die. So it looked like the new book was considerably weaker.

But then when you play some games you start to realise that those first impressions were mistaken. The way Warrior Priests work with infantry blocks is now really powerful - the new spells are more powerful, and only needing a 3+ means one die spam is a viable strategy. There are a host of buffs available, and Hold the Line can make a block of Empire troops near unbreakable.

And then you start realising how much more powerful detachment rule is, and then discover the new helblaster, supplemented with an engineer, is somehow the most reliable war machine in the game, and packs a hell of a punch to boot.

All of a sudden you realise Empire has become a combat army that can be supplemented by shooting, and is pretty decent at it.

That's not to say I completely love the new book. Having the excessive price of the state troops balanced by the bargain price of the Warrior Priests means that you kind of need to have Warrior Priests in your army, and to balance their price you need to make your combat blocks really big. Smaller blocks have to be detachments. It means it is hard not to turn up for a game with one of those 'three big infantry blocks and some other cheap stuff' armies people often roll their eyes at.

What the new book really did was it balanced out some of the more slowed things the army book had in it. Mortars and Cannons were way too cheap for what they did. Mortars especially, they may have slightly overcompensated but not by much.

The book itself is a very functional 8th edition book. There are no obvious builds and the book has good variety in those builds that are avaliable.

GW seems to be balancing all the army books out with 8th edition. You'll find that when Chaos, Lizardmen, Dark Elves, and HEs get updated they will feel the sting of the nerf bat. It will hurt the previous builds, but it won't be a crippling blow. meanwhile, WEs and Bretts will probably feel like Ogre players did when their book came out. It was pure Euphoria, a high that we still haven't come off of.

Grey Templar wrote:GW seems to be balancing all the army books out with 8th edition. You'll find that when Chaos, Lizardmen, Dark Elves, and HEs get updated they will feel the sting of the nerf bat. It will hurt the previous builds, but it won't be a crippling blow. meanwhile, WEs and Bretts will probably feel like Ogre players did when their book came out. It was pure Euphoria, a high that we still haven't come off of.

To add a touch of pessimism, GW has done this before. Then they let one book slip through that's got a little too much 'enthusiasm' and that is generally pretty powerful, and with a couple of very powerful builds. Then they build the next book to that power level, and so on until they screw up again. Then at some point the wheels come off entirely and every book just gets stupid.