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The rest of my 1500 list is foot slogging GHs and LF and such. I don't need input there. I'm needing a Warlord with enough teeth to handle the inevitable Challenges that are coming in a tourney.

Thunder Wolf out. Don't have the model. We're confined to a footer ... possibly a JP or bike, but meh. I have a RP in the list, but he'll be in a supportive role.

Best I can come up with for cheap ... heh, heh. "cheap"

Wolf Lord - Runic Armor, Frost Blade (not axe), Storm Shield, WT Talisman - a svelt 180
a. Runic Arm to by-pass many of the AP3 nerf-bats.
b. SS over Belt of Russ for the 3++.
c. FB instead of Frost Axe for the fast Init hit.
d. Talisman- obvious

Or maybe Ulric is made to order for the same points? But he has one poorer AP and wound. What he has that the WL doesn't is the Helm of Russ that would be some serious punking in a Challenge. Or would an opponent just chicken out? Can't wrap my head around it.

Input?

A wolf claw is superior to a frost blade if you're looking for AP3 at initiative. It's cheaper too.

I think your wolf lord is well set up for a duel. However, you may want to consider giving him Saga of the Bear so that he is an eternal warrior.

Also, I would make sure to put him in a unit that has at least one other character (e.g. a wolf guard model) with a power fist. That way, you can choose whether you want to fight the challenge with your wolf lord (4 str4 attacks at AP3 and Init 5) or the wolf guard model (2 Str8 attacks at AP 2 init 1).

For example : Suppose you put the wolf lord with a pack of 8 grey hunters with a banner and a wolf guard with a power fist. If you get challenged by a punk space marine seargent in power armor, then you can either waste him before he gets to attack with your wolf lord or you can use your wolf lord to demolish the enemy squad and let the WG model handle the seargent. Either option is a win for you although your WG will probably die in the second option.

On the other hand, suppose you get into CC with a demon prince. If you challenge him (or accept a challenge from him) with your wolf lord, then not only will your wolf lord probably die, but also your squad will not get to attack the demon prince. Instead, you can fight the challenge with your wolf guard - essentially sacrificing him for an opportunity to hit the Demon Prince with the wolf lord for more than one turn. It goes like this...

Turn 1 - demon prince kills WG
Turn 2 - demon prince kills 5 grey hunters. 3 grey hunters and the wolf lord hit back.
Turn 3 - wolf lord gets to hit back.

Grugknuckle wrote:A wolf claw is superior to a frost blade if you're looking for AP3 at initiative. It's cheaper too.

But frost blade has +1 Str. that could make or brake a challenge.

A lord worthy of challenges? Bear, hammer, shield and a giant middle finger. He'll kill just about everyone and anything that survives that will have to dance with him at the same Initiative the next round...

A lord worthy of challenges? Bear, hammer, shield and a giant middle finger. He'll kill just about everyone and anything that survives that will have to dance with him at the same Initiative the next round...

My MSS, Phaseshifted, Warscythe carrying Overlord would like a word.

kinratha wrote:

Grugknuckle wrote:A wolf claw is superior to a frost blade if you're looking for AP3 at initiative. It's cheaper too.

But frost blade has +1 Str. that could make or brake a challenge.

It doesn't mattter. Here's the math...Both weapons will have the same chance to hit, so it comes down to the chance to wound.

Suppose you attack a model with toughness 4. With the frost blade you need 3+ to wound so you have a 66% chance to wound him. But with the wolf claw you need a 4+ to Hit with a re-roll. That means that your chance to wound with the wolf claw

= (% chance to wound on first roll) + (% chance first roll failed to wound)*(% chance to wound on second roll)
= 50% + (50%)*(50%)
= 50% + 25%
=75%

Which is better than the 66% chance you had with the frost blade.

On the other hand, suppose you attack a model with toughness 5. Then your frost blade has a 50% chance to wound (4+ to wound), while your wolf claw has a 33% chance with a re-roll (5+ to wound). In this case, the wolf claw's chance to wound is

= (% chance to wound on first roll) + (% chance first roll failed to wound)*(% chance to wound on second roll)
= (33.333%) + (66.666%)*(33.333%)
= 55.555%

which is still better than the frost blade and the Wolf Claw is 5 points cheaper! The only way you can make the frost blade as good as the wolf claw is if you take a pistol and get an extra attack. But then you can't take a storm shield so whose going to do this?

Grugknuckle wrote:Also, I would make sure to put him in a unit that has at least one other character (e.g. a wolf guard model) with a power fist. That way, you can choose whether you want to fight the challenge with your wolf lord (4 str4 attacks at AP3 and Init 5) or the wolf guard model (2 Str8 attacks at AP 2 init 1).

He'll have company, including a WG.

Grugknuckle wrote:Turn 1 - demon prince kills WG
Turn 2 - demon prince kills 5 grey hunters. 3 grey hunters and the wolf lord hit back.
Turn 3 - wolf lord gets to hit back.

Problem is, the DP re-issues a Challenge Turn 2. Back to Square one where the GHs are out or the WLord is. Right?

I'm considering the WClaw, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grugknuckle wrote:I think your wolf lord is well set up for a duel. However, you may want to consider giving him Saga of the Bear so that he is an eternal warrior.

Ah, this is why I posted here. Great call, man. Thanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Unholy_Martyr wrote:A lord worthy of challenges? Bear, hammer, shield and a giant middle finger. He'll kill just about everyone and anything that survives that will have to dance with him at the same Initiative the next round...

And I don't have to convert any models.

Brothererekose wrote:

Grugknuckle wrote:Turn 1 - demon prince kills WG
Turn 2 - demon prince kills 5 grey hunters. 3 grey hunters and the wolf lord hit back.
Turn 3 - wolf lord gets to hit back.

Problem is, the DP re-issues a Challenge Turn 2. Back to Square one where the GHs are out or the WLord is. Right?

Nope. Only one challenge may be fought per close combat. Period. Thats in the first paragraph of the challenges section.

Grugknuckle wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:

Grugknuckle wrote:Turn 1 - demon prince kills WG
Turn 2 - demon prince kills 5 grey hunters. 3 grey hunters and the wolf lord hit back.
Turn 3 - wolf lord gets to hit back.

Problem is, the DP re-issues a Challenge Turn 2. Back to Square one where the GHs are out or the WLord is. Right?

Nope. Only one challenge may be fought per close combat. Period. Thats in the first paragraph of the challenges section.

Rereads. Well, now, that changes things a bit. Huh. Maybe TH/SS WG all around!

Grugknuckle wrote:

Brothererekose wrote:

Grugknuckle wrote:Turn 1 - demon prince kills WG
Turn 2 - demon prince kills 5 grey hunters. 3 grey hunters and the wolf lord hit back.
Turn 3 - wolf lord gets to hit back.

Problem is, the DP re-issues a Challenge Turn 2. Back to Square one where the GHs are out or the WLord is. Right?

Nope. Only one challenge may be fought per close combat. Period. Thats in the first paragraph of the challenges section.

Not quite. Only one challenge per assault; as is there cannot be two challenges going on in the same combat. But if a challenge ends a new one can be issued. pg.65: "Even though further challenges cannot be issued in a combat until the existing challenge has been resolved." This clearly implies that new challenges can be made.

Emp. wrote:Not quite. Only one challenge per assault; as is there cannot be two challenges going on in the same combat. But if a challenge ends a new one can be issued. pg.65: "Even though further challenges cannot be issued in a combat until the existing challenge has been resolved." This clearly implies that new challenges can be made.

Oh, fer heck's sake.


I'll carry this item over to YMDC.

One challenge at a time. Once one is over, a new one can be issued.

That answers your question.

Emp. wrote:One challenge at a time. Once one is over, a new one can be issued.

That answers your question.

Yeah, second paragraph after "Round Two", page 65. Good citation. You're not poster Gwar! with a nose job, are ya?

Alright, then. Back on topic.

Is a 215 pound porker worth it? He is sitting at 180 before SotBear. To get the points I remove a LF ML. Wirth it (LF unit will be 4 & 3 instead of a 5 & 4)? TH is the same price as the Frost Toys.

Tomorrow's RTT Warlord opponents are likely to be Imotekh the Stormload, DPs, and similar SM head honchos.

Any alternatives? A skinnier "Battle Leader" for the one wound less and such?

Brothererekose wrote:

Emp. wrote:One challenge at a time. Once one is over, a new one can be issued.

That answers your question.

Yeah, second paragraph after "Round Two", page 65. Good citation. You're not poster Gwar! with a nose job, are ya?

Alright, then. Back on topic.

Is a 215 pound porker worth it? He is sitting at 180 before SotBear. To get the points I remove a LF ML. Wirth it (LF unit will be 4 & 3 instead of a 5 & 4)? TH is the same price as the Frost Toys.

Tomorrow's RTT Warlord opponents are likely to be Imotekh the Stormload, DPs, and similar SM head honchos.

Any alternatives? A skinnier "Battle Leader" for the one wound less and such?

WL in TDA, TH/SS, SotB, and Talisman. That's the beat stick you're looking for in your footslogging wolf list. Anything that isn't Logan but close should do it

Just don't get eaten by a Tesseract Labyrinth

Quite frankly, I think it would just be easier to avoid CC and shoot the bad guys. You can buy a lot of guns for 215 points.

Or if you're dead set on close combat, then consider this question: Whose going to do more damage in close combat, one 250 point wolf lord or five TWC with no wargear? Or three TWC with TH/SS? Which one is "vulnerable" to challenges?

Wolf lord 1.

Thunderwolf, PF, WC, Belt of Russ, saga of the bear, runic armour

Wolf lord 2.

Terminator, PF, WC, Belt of russ, saga of the bear, runic armour

Wolf lord 1 got :
6 attack 7 on the charge (PF+WC stack as 2 close combat weapons since they are both specialist weapons) at strength 5 or 10 AP 3 or 2 at I5 or 1 and cost - 270

Wolf lord 2 got:
5 attack 7 on the charge at strength 4 or 8 AP2 or 3 at I5 or 1 and cost - 225p

with the nerf on power weapon you can actually survive well on 2+ armour, Logan Grimnar is very very good now ,slaughter my brothers Draigo with ease to his great surprise since he is new to 5th edition and has no grasp over 6th edition at all (he was complaining all the rest of the game how draigo and grey knights are nerfed to extinction in 6th and how its impossible to win anything with them , but he will find back to the truth)

Unholy_Martyr wrote:A lord worthy of challenges? Bear, hammer, shield and a giant middle finger. He'll kill just about everyone and anything that survives that will have to dance with him at the same Initiative the next round...

This.

Just don't expect to live against certain enemy characters (Vect for example pisses me off) and never allocate shooting attacks to him to save grunts, or else he won't do jack in combat.

Grugknuckle wrote:Quite frankly, I think it would just be easier to avoid CC and shoot the bad guys. You can buy a lot of guns for 215 points.

I agree.

Grugknuckle wrote:Or if you're dead set on close combat, then consider this question: Whose going to do more damage in close combat, one 250 point wolf lord or five TWC with no wargear? Or three TWC with TH/SS? Which one is "vulnerable" to challenges?

At the top I stated I don't own TWC models.

I wanted a decent Warlord because, in some cases, having a decent one helps the overall mission/game.

However, I'm going back to the drawing board. I went 0-3 for the RTT and Mr. Badass did soak up a lot of wounds, ate two enemy HQs and some other minor things, but I do need to toss fatty in favor of a LF crew and more. Dakka, man, moar dakka!

Thanks all, though. When the RTT weighs in at 1750 or so, I might just bring tubby back on.

Alternate Idea.

Demon Priest issues challenge - Wolf Guard refuses. Wolf Guard sits out and the Grey Hunters and Wolf Lord at normally.


Having that second character in the squad gives you the ability to accept or deny challenges but keep the special snowflake in the fight.

Jefffar wrote:Alternate Idea.

Demon Priest issues challenge - Wolf Guard refuses. Wolf Guard sits out and the Grey Hunters and Wolf Lord at normally.


Having that second character in the squad gives you the ability to accept or deny challenges but keep the special snowflake in the fight.

"Special Snowflake" in fight? As in, why not have my WolfLord accept the Challenge anyway?

GHs will be out or cheerleading while my WL has to accept the Challenge the WG wussed out on. Didja mean something else?

Yeah, when you decline a challenge 1 character has to sit out the fight. THis means you can sit down the WG while the WL and the GH dance with the Demon Prince.

Jefffar wrote:Yeah, when you decline a challenge 1 character has to sit out the fight. THis means you can sit down the WG while the WL and the GH dance with the Demon Prince.

And then the second character has to step up. "If you refuse, opponent gets to nominate one of your characters ... " and the rest of the bold main rule. Challenge still happens and the GHs cheer lead.

Daemon says, "Empra sux & LeRuss opened a hot dog stand onna Tau world! Who wants to make somethin' of it? "
Wolf Guard pees his kilt and hides behind the Wolf Lord.
Daemon, reading from the page 64 line, "Um, '... one of your characters from those that can still fight.' Yo! Wolf Lord, you're up! Bee-yotch."

So, 'no' on your alternate idea.

Shoot, missed that part.