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So, with the addition of flyers, people are concerned about the lack of anti-aircraft fire power in some armies, a reasonable concern. While reading through the apocalypse rule book, I noticed that it add the ability for pintle-mounted weapons to fire at flyers normally, at the time to take into account the lack of any AAA for anybody. This is not the unreasonable, tanks crews would often turn to their externally mounted machine guns when faced with aircraft. So, could the addition of this rule help alleviate the problem a bit?

I do realize that most pintle-mounted weapons lack the fire power to take on flyers, so I also propose the addition of a pintle AA mount upgrade for all armies.

Pintle AA Mount ???pts
Range: 24” Str: 5 AP: - Heavy 3, Skyfire

Hmmmmmmmm. hmmmmmmmmm. well... hmmmmmmmmmm.

That's a weird one.

The Hunter Killer Missile. Can it also choose to fire as a Flakk Missile? An aside I know but relevant as it can be mounted on turrets and might be GW's simple answer, so to speak.

As for a pintle mounted anti-air craft gun. Normaly I'd say no. Look at a modern day Abrams tank and despite its power, to my knowledge it cant target air. But I remember it shot Iron Man out of the sky in the movie, which was hilarious. But a machine gun? Hmmmm. Would it have a special bubble turret? Because that would be wicked cool. Very classic dystopian future thing to see on a tank.

All of this would have to be weighed as to where your going to draw the line between balanced game and war representative game. I think as this is the new big thing for sixth edition, to have terrifying flyers, it should be hard to counter.

Your gun seems good. A 'chance giver' weapon. When you say 'all armies', what do you mean?

THIS POST HAS BEEN AMMENDED, CLARIFIED, AND ACKNOWLEDGED FOR ITS WEAKNESS IN THE EMPERORS IMMORTAL GAZE BELOW! .....(Bwahahaha, Im so funny)

I'm not with the idea if I'm honest. You'll have to suck it up and try to shoot down your flyers somehow else. A Storm Bolter doesn't gain +1S just because he's sjpptomg at an aircraft instead of infantry.

KnuckleWolf wrote:Hmmmmmmmm. hmmmmmmmmm. well... hmmmmmmmmmm.

As for a pintle mounted anti-air craft gun. Normaly I'd say no. Look at a modern day Abrams tank and despite its power, to my knowledge it cant target air. But I remember it shot Iron Man out of the sky in the movie, which was hilarious. But a machine gun? Hmmmm. Would it have a special bubble turret? Because that would be wicked cool. Very classic dystopian future thing to see on a tank.

Just about every modern MBT (including the Abrams) has some sort of pintle mounted anti-aircraft weapon, ranging in calibre from 7.62 up to 20mm depending on the tank and age. These aren't used to take down fighters (too high and fast, obviously), but can at least combat low flying, slower aircraft, namely attack helicopters.

Now, I'm not one to translate RL ideas and stats into the world of 40k, as it only degenerates into an endless debate about the relative power of weapons which gets nowhere.

I do, however, like this idea as a stop gap measure. Every new 6th ed codex will have more AA options, in various forms. The weapon you propose would cost about 15-20pts, seeing as how a pintle mounted stubber or storm bolter is 10pts. It sounds reasonable to me, and it can't even hurt the heaver flyers (vendetta, stormraven), but at least gives the option to shoot at the lighter ones at a cost premium.

Right, right, right. I done goofed up! Sorry bros! Don't taze me!

Absolutely right, there are pintle-mounted weapon systems to take down aircraft in real life. Machine guns and, if I'm not sadly mistaken, a Tow (toe? something? anybody?) Missile Launcher, which can take out choppers and is mounted on the relatively light Bradley Fighting Vehicle and other vehicles including, I want to say, occasionally on a Hummer. In addition to the afore mentioned 7.62s and 20mms that Blacksails points out. I don't even know what other SAM missiles are out there, scaaary. But we were talking about a gun, I apologize for the digression. When my earlier post was made I wasn't thinking about choppers, just jets...which was dumb...and just a little derpy...and I feel bad now. Let's leave that behind us now.

And totaly agree with Blacksails again, I don't like game/real world cross interpretation or whatever you can creatively call it. That's just a hot mess waiting to happen.

Any fliers that can be hurt by Str 5 fire are already easily destroyed by non-Skyfiring units, making this redundant. Any other Flier (the ones people actually care about facing) ignore this, so it has no effect.

So this rule does not much at all.

This is not endorsement that more Skyfire weapons need to exist, however. They do not.

... nothing in the nid dex can even shoot at a flyer at normal bs... nothing... we deserve something first...

Lord_Ghazghkull wrote:... nothing in the nid dex can even shoot at a flyer at normal bs... nothing... we deserve something first...

Neither does Eldar. Nor Space Wolves I think (one or more of the marines doesn't get Stormtalons). Nor Sisters, but they aren't a real army.

Lord_Ghazghkull wrote:... nothing in the nid dex can even shoot at a flyer at normal bs... nothing... we deserve something first...

Any Wing monster creatures can shot at another flyier with normal bs

The Mad Tanker wrote:So, with the addition of flyers, people are concerned about the lack of anti-aircraft fire power in some armies, a reasonable concern. While reading through the apocalypse rule book, I noticed that it add the ability for pintle-mounted weapons to fire at flyers normally, at the time to take into account the lack of any AAA for anybody. This is not the unreasonable, tanks crews would often turn to their externally mounted machine guns when faced with aircraft. So, could the addition of this rule help alleviate the problem a bit?

I do realize that most pintle-mounted weapons lack the fire power to take on flyers, so I also propose the addition of a pintle AA mount upgrade for all armies.

Pintle AA Mount ???pts
Range: 24” Str: 5 AP: - Heavy 3, Skyfire

Actually the Imperial guard have Dedicated AAA cannons , called Hydras , Thye are mounted on Chimera chassis and are 4 barreld Autocannons , as far as i know the IG are the only ones with a Ground based AAA unit

Cool idea, but a S5 weapon won't do anything against most flyers, which are AV12.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
The Hunter Killer Missile. Can it also choose to fire as a Flakk Missile? An aside I know but relevant as it can be mounted on turrets and might be GW's simple answer, so to speak.

Your gun seems good. A 'chance giver' weapon. When you say 'all armies', what do you mean?

AA HK missile? Sounds cool. The idea is the upgrade is available to all tanks in all armies.

Painbiro wrote:Cool idea, but a S5 weapon won't do anything against most flyers, which are AV12.

It will be able to penatrate the rear armor on most. I just didn't want it to be too powerful.

The Mad Tanker wrote:

KnuckleWolf wrote:
The Hunter Killer Missile. Can it also choose to fire as a Flakk Missile? An aside I know but relevant as it can be mounted on turrets and might be GW's simple answer, so to speak.

Your gun seems good. A 'chance giver' weapon. When you say 'all armies', what do you mean?

AA HK missile? Sounds cool. The idea is the upgrade is available to all tanks in all armies.

Painbiro wrote:Cool idea, but a S5 weapon won't do anything against most flyers, which are AV12.

It will be able to penatrate the rear armor on most. I just didn't want it to be too powerful.

Honestly what is effectively a pintel mounted HMG comes to the same problems that real vehicles with pintel mounted "AA" weapons. They are only really called that in name because everything that is in the air is either too fast (pretty much anything that isn't a helicopter) or too well armoured (an AH-64 can protect against up to a 50mm autocannon, and I am almost certain that it protects against HMG fire everywhere). A cool idea might be to use awesome ideas that were never implemented for practicality reasons such as the RWS on the MBT 70 (abandon American/German effort to make a successor to the Leopard and M60) or the turret mounted autocannons on the T-72M1 (you ever see the T-100 from Endwar? It looks like that, with the huge guns on the turret). Not exactly the most practical ideas IRL, but warhammer has never been realistic anyway and skyfire autocannons on tanks is certainly a pragmatic option. Granted it should cost like 30 points even if it can only has the skyfire rule.

Also SAM HK missiles sounds cool, would probably buy them at 15-20 points, any more would be too much.

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:
Any Wing monster creatures can shot at another flyier with normal bs

False.