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So I was looking at ordnance rules in the book today and it says nothing about having to stay stationary with vehicles to fire ordnance (pg 51). I would assume then with vehicles you can move at combat speed and still fire ordnance. So with the Leman Russ and the lumbering behemoth rule does that mean you may move at combat speed and fire one weapon in addition to your battle cannon at full BS?

no, it means that when you move at combat speed you get to fire 1 weapon at full BS from not your turret mounted guns(say the Hull HB/Lascannon) and then you may also fire whatever turret weapon your Russ has, also at full BS.

It also means that when you fire an Ordnance weapon(moving or stationary) for a turret weapon, it does not count to reduce your other guns to firing Snapshots.

Kommissar Kel wrote:no, it means that when you move at combat speed you get to fire 1 weapon at full BS from not your turret mounted guns(say the Hull HB/Lascannon) and then you may also fire whatever turret weapon your Russ has, also at full BS.

It also means that when you fire an Ordnance weapon(moving or stationary) for a turret weapon, it does not count to reduce your other guns to firing Snapshots.

Well if you do move you would have one free weapon besides the turret at normal BS. The rest however could still be fired, but would be snap shots (since moving only allows you to fire one weapon at normal BS anyway).

Kommissar Kel wrote:no, it means that when you move at combat speed you get to fire 1 weapon at full BS from not your turret mounted guns(say the Hull HB/Lascannon) and then you may also fire whatever turret weapon your Russ has, also at full BS.

It also means that when you fire an Ordnance weapon(moving or stationary) for a turret weapon, it does not count to reduce your other guns to firing Snapshots.

Isn't that what I said?

Also, any vehicle may fire ordnance at combat speed now? I think in 5th you had to stay put to fire it and you couldn't fire anything else. I didn't see anything like that in the 6th brb though.

Not true in 5th; in 4th you could fire but scattered if moved

Kommissar Kel wrote:no, it means that when you move at combat speed you get to fire 1 weapon at full BS from not your turret mounted guns(say the Hull HB/Lascannon) and then you may also fire whatever turret weapon your Russ has, also at full BS.

It also means that when you fire an Ordnance weapon(moving or stationary) for a turret weapon, it does not count to reduce your other guns to firing Snapshots.

Are you sure that if the leman russ fires its turret weapon it can still fire one other shot at full ballistic skill when moving at combat speed? I want to agree with you, but the IG codex on says that it may "fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire". This doesn't mention at what ballistic skill though (and the IG faq doesn't mention it either).

Also, in the vehicle section, it mentions that all vehicles have the relentless special rule...would that override all those bulletpoints about what you can fire if you've moved? Relentless units always count as stationary when firing heavy weapons.

logan007 wrote:Also, in the vehicle section, it mentions that all vehicles have the relentless special rule...would that override all those bulletpoints about what you can fire if you've moved? Relentless units always count as stationary when firing heavy weapons.

It doesn't override them, it works with them.
If the vehicle didn't have relentless then if it moved it could only snap fire heavy weapons. Use the two rules together and you can move a standard vehicle 6" and fire a single heavy weapon at full BS as if stationary.

I asked a Games Workshop manager this and his response was the "intention" was to give Leman Russes the "Heavy" generalisation like monoliths so they count as being stationary even when they have moved.

Im not sure what to think but given that the LMR is the common imperial guardsmans workhorse i would be disappointed if they couldnt fire all weapons at full BS.

Getting to fire a hull lascannon at full BS in addition to firing an Ordnance turret is already more than any other vehicle, heavy or not, can do. I think the Guard's workhorse is doing just fine.

*shrug* its not like gaurdsman have great BS anyway. Space marine, Necron, Eldar etc get to fire at BS 4.

Lumbering Behemoth was supposed to be a special rule which (imo) outlined the realiability and sturdy construction of the vehicle allowing it to rattle off all weapons in all directions even by normal humans. Seems everyone can do that now which is fine. Whatever.

It remains one of the great attractions of the LMR (despite its great cannon) was the fact it could field plenty of weapons and shoot them all at once with a fair level of accuracy. Now it just seems it can do the same as everyone else. Thus (imo) removing one of the motivating factors for choosing it. Monoliths have heavy and can fire all weapons and count as being stationary. Why should LMR be so different? I wouldnt put it past GW to have made a typo.

After all if we are going "by the book" the Executioner Cannon has no GETS HOT rule. Look it up. There is a comma after the last word in the rules segment for that gun where GETS HOT is clearly truncated onto the next line. But you cant see it. Ergo its not there, so i guess we dont have to obey?

logan007 wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:no, it means that when you move at combat speed you get to fire 1 weapon at full BS from not your turret mounted guns(say the Hull HB/Lascannon) and then you may also fire whatever turret weapon your Russ has, also at full BS.

It also means that when you fire an Ordnance weapon(moving or stationary) for a turret weapon, it does not count to reduce your other guns to firing Snapshots.

Are you sure that if the leman russ fires its turret weapon it can still fire one other shot at full ballistic skill when moving at combat speed? I want to agree with you, but the IG codex on says that it may "fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire". This doesn't mention at what ballistic skill though (and the IG faq doesn't mention it either).

Yes, I am sure.

You are allowed 1 full BS weapon while moving at combat speed, normally.

You use your Hull lascannon(pure example, a Sponson weapon would be ok as well) as this 1 Normal Full BS weapon.

Then Lumbering Behemoth allows the Turret system to fire it's weapon in addition.

Many of the turret systems are Blast, so the turret shots as Snapshots are logically impossible; therefore it must be a normal shot from the turret weapon; which would be Full BS.

Also the turret weapon is in addition to the other weapon, so the hull lascannon(example, see above) is the primary weapon firing, and as such at full BS. Then the turret is also allowed to fire and as above that must be full BS as well.

In fifth editions rule set, it would have allowed you to fire your ordnance weapon and then any other weapons despite the fact that you fired an accordance weapon as Snap Shots did not exist in that edition. Here in sixth, we are given permission to fire other weapons after firing ordnance weapons but as snap shots. Since the codex does not specifically state at normal Ballistic Skill, you would defer them to snap shots.

Xzerios wrote:In fifth editions rule set, it would have allowed you to fire your ordnance weapon and then any other weapons despite the fact that you fired an accordance weapon as Snap Shots did not exist in that edition. Here in sixth, we are given permission to fire other weapons after firing ordnance weapons but as snap shots. Since the codex does not specifically state at normal Ballistic Skill, you would defer them to snap shots.

then what is the point of having Lumbering behemoth? Basically you're saying that 6th edition broke the Leman Russ, which I wont abide. I'm gonna go with the Kommisar on this one.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

logan007 wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:no, it means that when you move at combat speed you get to fire 1 weapon at full BS from not your turret mounted guns(say the Hull HB/Lascannon) and then you may also fire whatever turret weapon your Russ has, also at full BS.

It also means that when you fire an Ordnance weapon(moving or stationary) for a turret weapon, it does not count to reduce your other guns to firing Snapshots.

Are you sure that if the leman russ fires its turret weapon it can still fire one other shot at full ballistic skill when moving at combat speed? I want to agree with you, but the IG codex on says that it may "fire its turret weapon in addition to any other weapons it is usually allowed to fire". This doesn't mention at what ballistic skill though (and the IG faq doesn't mention it either).

Yes, I am sure.

You are allowed 1 full BS weapon while moving at combat speed, normally.

You use your Hull lascannon(pure example, a Sponson weapon would be ok as well) as this 1 Normal Full BS weapon.

Then Lumbering Behemoth allows the Turret system to fire it's weapon in addition.

Many of the turret systems are Blast, so the turret shots as Snapshots are logically impossible; therefore it must be a normal shot from the turret weapon; which would be Full BS.

Also the turret weapon is in addition to the other weapon, so the hull lascannon(example, see above) is the primary weapon firing, and as such at full BS. Then the turret is also allowed to fire and as above that must be full BS as well.

I agree with you about firing turrets with a blast/ordnance blast. but what about the punisher and exterminator? The rules aren't quite as clear about those two.

5th Edition book in 6th rules. Theres going to be some odd conflicts in wording. Additional rules in the new edition that coincide with what the special rule do also dont help either. Since we now have Snap Shots, I would look to see if the codex stated that the other weapons fired were treated as being fired with their normal Ballistic Skill (set modifier). Since the codex does not outline it definitively (because it was written with 5th edition in mind), we have to apply the standard rules from 6th.

Id start pushing for a FaQ on this one though. Its intended purpose is to keep the original BS, but doesnt say so on the account of the edition it was written in.



Personally, Id let an IG player with it slide. Intended purpose is good enough for me. :3

Fortunately in 6th now, however, Lumbering Behemoth permits the Leman Russ to fire its main gun when it is shaken even if it is blast.

Indeed it does.

Hiya Homies.

Page 71 Vehicles and ordanance weapons. +Unlike other units, vehicles can move and fire ordnance weapons. However, a vehicle that fires an ordnance weapon can only make snap shots with its other weapons that turn+ and remember in the 5th edition firing ordnance didnt allow firing of any other weapons so its a boost to ordnance firing models no as the can fire everything else as snap shots.

logan007 wrote:I agree with you about firing turrets with a blast/ordnance blast. but what about the punisher and exterminator? The rules aren't quite as clear about those two.

Extension of logic; if the Battle cannon, Executioner, Demolisher etc turrets are not Snap firing, then neither would the Exterminator, Punisher or Vanquisher