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Made in gb
Horrible Hekatrix With Hydra Gauntlets




So I've been thinking about this a fair bit recently and I'd love to get peoples opinions and/or some sources on a few things.
First, numbers. Based on WH40Kwiki (not the most reliable of sources I know) a regiment consists of 3-20 companies each of 3-6 Platoons. A single super-heavy is described as roughly equivalent to a Platoon, which gives us around 9-120 tanks per regiment. However, the same article confusingly goes on to mention that a super-heavy regiment usually consists of 9-12 tanks, which seems like too few to me - although 120 tanks is equally a ridiculous amount in most circumstances. The Shadowsword's Liber Apocalyptica mentions that they are also organised in regiments of around 12, but the steel fury Baneblade company determines the lower bound of a company as 3 tanks, and does not mention an upper bound. I assume due to its rarity the Shadowsword ought to be organised into smaller Regiments than most vehicles, but I could be wrong.

Onto the actual Regimental composition - I assume companies would have no variance between chassis, although different variants might be seen even without squadrons, I imagine. I couldn't say whether the Baneblade and Hellhammer are considered to have the same chassis as the Shadowsword variants though, and indeed, the variety within the actual Shadowsword kit is arguably enough that those vehicles might not be same-chassis either. This then brings the question - would the different companies within a regiment use different chassis? For example, A and B company use the Baneblade/Shadowsword chassis, but C, D and E used the Macharius because of a lack of supply when the regiment was created? Likewise with the Crassus, Dominus and Praetor - these appear to have the same track units as the Macharius from FW pictures, but they aren't *really* the same in operation and fluffwise origin, so I'd guess they would form separate companies at the very least. Assuming this, where does the Gorgon fit? Again, similar tracks, but I can't see it mixed in given the differing roles. Or another option, the Crassus and Gorgon are organised together because they both serve roughly the same purpose, and the Dominus and Praetor might be an entirely different company or even regiment given the differing role. In this case you'd have the Shadowsword, Stormblade and similar vehicles in dedicated "anti-titan" companies, with the Stormsword and Hellhammer siege tanks and the Macharius Vulcan and the Stormlord in dedicated anti-infantry companies?

Where does the Malcador and its variants fit in all this? It's technically a super-heavy, at least rules wise, and it is significantly bigger than most comparable tanks, but its supposed to be similar in role to the Leman Russ, so I could see things argued either way. 'Normal' tank company, super heavy or even something else? A Heavy tank company with two vehicles per platoon? Is the Valdor considered a Malcador variant, even though it's not explicitly a Malcador like the others, since it uses the same chassis, or might is even join the other 'titan hunters' in dedicated SH companies? If it is a legitimate variant, what about the Minotaur? That's the Malcador chassis, but very different in design, layout and purpose.

Would the Minotaur be a part of 'Heavy Artillery' regiments, and therefore be fielded alongside the Bombard, Deathstrike and Manticore? Or would it have it's own class of regiment specifically for it? Assuming of course it isn't just a part of a super-heavy tank regiment, which is possible but I think unlikely given the point of the whole regiment setup. What about the Banesword? It's Shadowsword chassis and similarly armoured but clearly a dedicated siege weapon and presumably ought therefore to be part of artillery companies? Come to think of it, the Dominus and Praetor ought to be Heavy Artillery as well, but in a different class to the Manticore/Deathstrike/Bombard with the Minotaur, or combined with the lighter but still relatively heavy vehicles?

I assume each Regiment would have a command vehicle, but what about representation from Commissars. I'm pretty sure there's a reference to Commissariat crew for some super-heavies somewhere, but would this be separate attached vehicles or would the Commissar(s) simply displace crew of existing vehicles? I assume such extravagance as the Fortress of Arrogance is reserved for someone as iconic as Yarrik, but I could see some other Commissar Lords requisitioning their own vehicles...

Apologies for the length, and I'm sure some of these questions don't have easy answers, but any help/thoughts would be awesome.
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Super Heavy regiments are indeed only 20ish tanks at most. And their very existance is so rare its almost mythical status amoung the IG. Most Baneblades are simply a command vehicle for a normal armor company(that may have between 1 and 3 Baneblades)

Regiments arn't always the same size. Its entirely dependent on the type of regiment. Super Heavy regiments will almost always have their own unique layout.


As for the actual vehicles, they will probably have a variety of varients in the company. Mostly standard pattern Baneblades with a couple of the other patterns thrown in, depending on speciality. An Assault regiment will probably have a higher ratio of Hellhammer and Stormlord patterns and not have any Shadowswords or Stormhammers.

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Made in de
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

The munitorum seems to keep any IG formation pretty closely tied to a role. So yes, companies will be dedicated to a role.
Regiments are bulit from companies and because the IG has been split from their naval transport and aerial support, the super-heavy formations would also lack certain abilities. So no dedicated AA inbuilt, but attached from other Regiments for example.

If you apply that basic thought, the SHV regiment is usually a group of fighting vehicles plus a ton of support. ( ammo, fuel, repairs ).
So it will equal a different style of IG regiment in some terms because the fluff hints at this , but we don't know the mechanics of the munitorums "comparision charts". Thus you can't just use the examples given in a IG codex ( ie these 3-20, 3-6 ) as they didn't tell us how many of each a specific type a specific IG regiment has. I'd stick with Apoc here, as the steelfury you have mentioned starts with a 3+ per company. Assuming a typical squad in the GW-verse is 3 vehicles, multiples of 3 seem right to form a company.

The vehicles you listed aren't all SHV, some are rather heavy and some are rather old/outdated designs.
I agree they would be organized to fit a role on the battlefield, so artillery regiments may sport different companies ( heavy, missile, etc etc ) and the dedicated titan hunters seem to be spread across the army but rarely have enough vehicles to form their own regiments, so I'd attach them to other more common formations, especially those fielded in large armored battles and assaulting defended positions where SHV are expected. Assault or siege regiments may get the close support vehicles and the transports.

I believe the way it is described the most venerated chassis is the "baneblade,shadowsword,etc" one and some of the vehicles like those based on the "macharius" wouldn't be part of a super-heavy, but a heavy formation or maybe even a standard formation.
Only the "baneblade&co" were listed as different pattern of ancient tech, some pattern considered lesser as they don't have the advanced systems of others ( weapons,damage control and targetting IIRC ). The rest seems easier to produce. Could mean the
vehicles don't get mixed so often as they start as a formation of vehicles of a shared basic chassis and only through losses become reorganized in mixed groups.

The Crassus and Praetor seem to be recovered vehicle patterns, they may find their way into the ranks but usually they would be only a common sight close to their world of origin.
The configuration of a regiment may rely on the availability of the vehicles and one commonly known throughout the IoM has a greater chance to find replacements and someone to repair it. A malcador may be of some interest to the mechanicum, however a baneblade forged at Mars is on a another level of fascination to them. This would grant a primary position amongst a Regiment, where the ones with the higher influence would claim the most famous patterns and the rest has to deal with "standard" gear...
Doubt the commissariat usually has to accompany the Tanks, the crews got a strong belief in their armored behemoth and the Emprah, so better keep the grey masses of infantry in line. Sitting in a Baneblade, won't help to execute the offender in the other baneblade...
So yarrick was an exception and his ride also altered, so he may adress the footsloggers.

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Made in gb
Oberstleutnant





Back in the English morass

There is no such thing as a standard unit organisation in the Imperial Guard. There isn't even standard noclementure.

The 'standard' IG superheavy company is 3 vehicles and a regiment typically comprises of 3 companies with a command vehicle. Super heavy companies tend to be of the same type of vehicle for ease of deployment and are usually found attached to armoured regiments. As I said though there are probably more units with non standard organisations than there are with the standard one.

Commisars in armoured regiments usually take the role of commander in one of the 'rank and file' vehicles. I'm not sure how it would work with superheavies given the size of the crew, they could form part of the crew in the regimental command tank, thats what Yarrick did on Golgotha.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/13 12:32:18


RegalPhantom wrote:
If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
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Made in gb
Horrible Hekatrix With Hydra Gauntlets




It's pretty clear from the established Macharius fluff that it is a full super-heavy tank and intended for the same kinds of roles imo. Not only is it specifically called a "second generation" Baneblade, the FW page specifically mentions it in the context of a SHV regiment. It might not be in the same regiments, and I'm sure that the Baneblade is definitely considered greatly superior, but it is still a full SHV-of-the-line. The real question is whether they would be mixed even within similar purpose squadrons, or separate companies within the same regiment, or a different regiment altogether, though given the variety of the Guard I suppose there's really no definitive answer on this. The way I envision it, the Regimental command tank would always be a "superior" chassis if available, and within companies, each command tank would also be the most respected chassis available, but the gaps would be filled in with whatever vehicles are available, which *could* result in a Company with, say a Stormblade command but two Macharius Omega and potentially even something as small as a Valdor making up the body of the company in lieu of better Baneblade-based vehicles being available at the time of the Regiments creation.
I could also see the other two options being argued though, and I presume it would probably differ between Regiments either way. I can't decide whether the Malcador ought to be SH, normal or a class of its own though. My current train of thought places it in Heavy Tank Regiments, BUT the rarer, more valuable variants like the Valdor and Minotaur potentially as supplemental vehicles in full SHV Regiments depending on need, assuming of course the Minotaur isn't drafted into a heavy artillery regiment separately, which may well be the case.
   
 
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