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I can't seem to find any text in the rulebook mentioning shooting through 2" of terrain.

This comes up because I was in a tournament. The TO decided that my opponent get a cover save in the open for shooting from my autocannon dreadnought whose base is touching the wall. He cites that since the window panels shield away about 25% of the stormraven, my opponent will get a 4+ cover save.

First off, the standard cover save is now 5+

He states touching a wall which is probably ruins 4+

And 2" cover rule only applied when shooting through area terrain. if someone was on area terrain (or ruins) they got the save reguardless of the 2" rule.

Vehicles never had the 2" rule only obscurred. before it was 50%, but now its only 25%.

That being said, I have not found the 2" rule for shooting through area terrain either.

Paitryn wrote:That being said, I have not found the 2" rule for shooting through area terrain either.

It's not.

If you are firing out of area terrain, and your base is completely inside the area terrain, you grant the opponent the area terrain cover save. How far into the terrain the firing model is no longer matters.

Can you tell me where you found that? Under cover it makes no mention of that or under area terrain.

The way my FLGS rule judge determined it is if your standing entirely in area terrain, you give the model your shooting at a cover save.

Yeah my store is a little more competitive so they would look to find a rule reguarding that (not that they are purely RAW, just that we are usually the store that holds the qualifiers for nat'l tourneys)

so far there is no rule stating that. Seems they removed the 2" rule altogether and as long as you can see the whole squad you may shoot, or in the case you only see a few, focus fire on those that are out of cover.

@djones520: Unfortunately, anecdote is not evidence. Area terrain gives the unit in the area terrain a 5+ cover save (vehicles don't get this). Units outside of area terrain doesn't get the cover save when being shot by units inside of area terrain. The 25% rule still apply.

But back to my original question: does this mean having a ruin wall in front of you means giving your opponent cover save 4+ all the time?

Yes, as long as it obscures the vehicle by 25% it grants a 4+ cover save because it is between you and the target.

now if your vehicle can see the entire (or more than 25%) of the target vehicle's hull then it does not grant a cover save.

vehicles only get a save based on how much is covered, not if its in or behind terrain, just how much you can't see.

There is a specific example of this in the rulebook of a rhino behind a ruin wall

leohart wrote:@djones520: Unfortunately, anecdote is not evidence. Area terrain gives the unit in the area terrain a 5+ cover save (vehicles don't get this). Units outside of area terrain doesn't get the cover save when being shot by units inside of area terrain. The 25% rule still apply.

But back to my original question: does this mean having a ruin wall in front of you means giving your opponent cover save 4+ all the time?

re: 1st part of your post --> except for forests, I believe, which are the only type of area terrain that grants a non-LoS-based cover to shots passing through it. So units firing from inside a forest would grant cover saves to their target, I believe.

re: the 2nd part --> it would depend on the location of the model's eyes, would it not?

Altruizine wrote:re: 1st part of your post - except for forests, I believe, which are the only type of area terrain that grants a non-LoS-based cover to shots passing through it. So units firing from inside a forest would grant cover saves to their target, I believe.

Forests and other "template" terrain pieces were what I was referring to. If you fire out of a forest, it grants the target a cover save. I mistakenly used the blanket term "area terrain" earlier.

culsandar wrote:

Altruizine wrote:re: 1st part of your post - except for forests, I believe, which are the only type of area terrain that grants a non-LoS-based cover to shots passing through it. So units firing from inside a forest would grant cover saves to their target, I believe.

Forests and other "template" terrain pieces were what I was referring to. If you fire out of a forest, it grants the target a cover save. I mistakenly used the blanket term "area terrain" earlier.

Even "template" terrain wont grant cover for the most part. even forests only grant cover if you have to draw LOS through the forest, meaning if your on the edge of the terrain, no cover save. so you can still benefit from a 5+ cover and not grant one by not shooting through the forest, but from it.

Paitryn wrote:Even "template" terrain wont grant cover for the most part. even forests only grant cover if you have to draw LOS through the forest, meaning if your on the edge of the terrain, no cover save. so you can still benefit from a 5+ cover and not grant one by not shooting through the forest, but from it.

You must be on the edge, however. If you are completely within, even by 1/4 inch, you grant the opponent a cover save.

culsandar wrote:

Altruizine wrote:re: 1st part of your post - except for forests, I believe, which are the only type of area terrain that grants a non-LoS-based cover to shots passing through it. So units firing from inside a forest would grant cover saves to their target, I believe.

Forests and other "template" terrain pieces were what I was referring to. If you fire out of a forest, it grants the target a cover save. I mistakenly used the blanket term "area terrain" earlier.

Yes this is important to clarify. Forests will grant a cover save if you shoot through them at all, but area terrain only grants cover saves to targets inside area terrain.

culsandar wrote:

Paitryn wrote:Even "template" terrain wont grant cover for the most part. even forests only grant cover if you have to draw LOS through the forest, meaning if your on the edge of the terrain, no cover save. so you can still benefit from a 5+ cover and not grant one by not shooting through the forest, but from it.

You must be on the edge, however. If you are completely within, even by 1/4 inch, you grant the opponent a cover save.

On what page can I read about this?

culsandar wrote:

Paitryn wrote:Even "template" terrain wont grant cover for the most part. even forests only grant cover if you have to draw LOS through the forest, meaning if your on the edge of the terrain, no cover save. so you can still benefit from a 5+ cover and not grant one by not shooting through the forest, but from it.

You must be on the edge, however. If you are completely within, even by 1/4 inch, you grant the opponent a cover save.

You keep saying this, but I don't know why?

A model (note that cover saves are determined by individual models, not units any more) gets a cover save if it is obscured by terrain (or models), or if it is within area terrain. Whether the shooting unit is in area terrain or not make not an ounce of difference. Pages 18 and 91 for reference.

If I have a unit in a forest (area terrain) and shoot out of it, I do not automatically grant my opponent a cover save. The enemy will, of course, get a cover save if they are obscured by the trees themselves, but not simply by the fact that I am standing in area terrain.

Cheexsta wrote:

culsandar wrote:

Paitryn wrote:Even "template" terrain wont grant cover for the most part. even forests only grant cover if you have to draw LOS through the forest, meaning if your on the edge of the terrain, no cover save. so you can still benefit from a 5+ cover and not grant one by not shooting through the forest, but from it.

You must be on the edge, however. If you are completely within, even by 1/4 inch, you grant the opponent a cover save.

You keep saying this, but I don't know why?

A model (note that cover saves are determined by individual models, not units any more) gets a cover save if it is obscured by terrain (or models), or if it is within area terrain. Whether the shooting unit is in area terrain or not make not an ounce of difference. Pages 18 and 91 for reference.

If I have a unit in a forest (area terrain) and shoot out of it, I do not automatically grant my opponent a cover save. The enemy will, of course, get a cover save if they are obscured by the trees themselves, but not simply by the fact that I am standing in area terrain.

Pg 102. Forests. if one or more models in the shooting unit have to trace their line of sight through a forest, then the model benefits from a 5+ cover save. So technically unless your on the edge of the forest, you will draw LOS through it to the shooting unit.

Fragile wrote:Pg 102. Forests. if one or more models in the shooting unit have to trace their line of sight through a forest, then the model benefits from a 5+ cover save. So technically unless your on the edge of the forest, you will draw LOS through it to the shooting unit.

Thank you Fragile. This is indeed the rule I am referring to.