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Does including Pedro as an allied HQ allow your Sternguard units to count as scoring? I would say yes, as the Pedro rule doesn't replace Combat Tactics. It merely states that all Sternguard Units in an army that includes Pedro count as Scoring. This allows Blood Angels to run Divination Librarians with scoring Sternguard. That should make for a nasty combo.

This was already raised in a thread. You should look at the search feature to make sure.

I checked, it didn't find anything, I'll check again using google.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, found it, is there a way to delete the thread on my end? Or does a mod need to lock it?

liturgies of blood wrote:This was already raised in a thread. You should look at the search feature to make sure.

I find the the search function often doesn't work I just searched for
"sternguard scoring", "sterngaurd allies" "pedro sternguard" " kantor allies" and got nothing more recent than 2011. Maybe I am am not searching right but it is not easy to use.

The FAQ mentions his +1 A is only for codex space marines, but no mention of sternguard scoring.

It's on page 5 under "Vote Pedro?"

Yes

Blood Angel Sternguard are not scoring even if Pedro is in the other detachment.

Rules from one codex do not have any effect on units from another codex.

DeathReaper wrote:Blood Angel Sternguard are not scoring even if Pedro is in the other detachment.

Rules from one codex do not have any effect on units from another codex.

Incorrect. That may be RAI, but not RAW.

There are no rules specifically saying that rules from one codex do not have any effect on units from another codex.

Polecat wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Blood Angel Sternguard are not scoring even if Pedro is in the other detachment.

Rules from one codex do not have any effect on units from another codex.

Incorrect. That may be RAI, but not RAW.

There are no rules specifically saying that rules from one codex do not have any effect on units from another codex.

The context of Pedro's rule says that it only effects units in the "Army" of Codex Space Marines.

The context of the word "Army", in the SM Codex, is referred to as the Space Marine Army contained within the SM Codex.

therefore Pedro can only effect units in his "Army" (And Battle Brothers maybe pending FAQ because that is not clear.)

Although there is this:
page 109 under the Partial force organization charts heading, "If your codex contains the primary detachment section of the Force Organization chart, the allied detachment and fortification sections will not be present, as individual codexes do not contain rules for allied units or fortifications."

Page 109 of the BRB says that

If you wish, your army can include one allied detachment for each primary detachment in your army (normally one, but if you're playing a larger game this might be two).

So yes, BA Sternguard are scoring since they are part of "your army"

DeathReaper wrote:Although there is this:
page 109 under the Partial force organization charts heading, "If your codex contains the primary detachment section of the Force Organization chart, the allied detachment and fortification sections will not be present, as individual codexes do not contain rules for allied units or fortifications."

Sorry, this does not mean what you think it means. What this means is that if your codex has the old FOC you can still use allies and fortifications. This is obvious by the rest of the paragraph. "If this is the case, it doesn't mean you can't use these elements of the chart, simply refer to the version presented here." Taking things out of context is not a good debate strategy. That quote is clearly referring to the codex not having rules for including allies and fortifications in your army, not that your rules are your own and cannot be shared by the rest of your army, including allies.

As I said:

therefore Pedro can only effect units in his "Army" (And Battle Brothers maybe pending FAQ because that is not clear.)

DeathReaper wrote:As I said:

therefore Pedro can only effect units in his "Army" (And Battle Brothers maybe pending FAQ because that is not clear.)

I know you have said it, but you have no rule to support it.

Captain Antivas wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:As I said:

therefore Pedro can only effect units in his "Army" (And Battle Brothers maybe pending FAQ because that is not clear.)

I know you have said it, but you have no rule to support it.

The Context of the Space Marine Codex referring to "Army" supports it.

P.51 SM Codex, Space Marine Special Rules section: "The models in a Space Marines army use a number of special rules that are common to more than one unit, as specified in the individual entries that follow"

The "Space Marines army" in context is talking about "the individual entries that follow" (That means the entries listed in the SM book).

DeathReaper wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:As I said:

therefore Pedro can only effect units in his "Army" (And Battle Brothers maybe pending FAQ because that is not clear.)

I know you have said it, but you have no rule to support it.

The Context of the Space Marine Codex referring to "Army" supports it.

P.51 SM Codex, Space Marine Special Rules section: "The models in a Space Marines army use a number of special rules that are common to more than one unit, as specified in the individual entries that follow"

The "Space Marines army" in context is talking about "the individual entries that follow" (That means the entries listed in the SM book).

Are you say the definition of "ARMY" in the Codex trumps that of the BRB?

40k-noob wrote:Are you say the definition of "ARMY" in the Codex trumps that of the BRB?

That is exactly what he is saying. He fails to take into account that the codex was written for 5th edition rules that did not include allies. Since the FAQ only limits some abilities to units chosen from C:SM and not others in the context of the new codex (the old one with the new FAQ updates) it is perfectly legal.

Do Blood Angels even have Combat Tactics? I thought they lost it for Red Thirst.

Thats what one of the local Blood Angels players told me, at any rate.

Crazyterran wrote:Do Blood Angels even have Combat Tactics? I thought they lost it for Red Thirst.

Thats what one of the local Blood Angels players told me, at any rate.

They did.
But you don't have to lose Combat Tactics to become scoring. Pedro makes you lose CT to become stubborn.

40k-noob wrote:Are you say the definition of "ARMY" in the Codex trumps that of the BRB?

Page 7 "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex.'Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence."

Codex trumps BRB...

He makes you lose CT to gain Stubborn and the Hold the Line! Special rule. It's all under the "Chapter Tactics" rule in his entry, and it says "...You gain stubborn **And your Sternguard get the Hold the Line!..." (emphasis mine)

You can't take Pedro and Vulkan, and get Hold the Line! and Twin Linked Meltas.

If your models have Pedro Kantor's Chapter Tacitcs, and are Sternguard, they also get Hold the Line!.

Captain Antivas wrote:

40k-noob wrote:Are you say the definition of "ARMY" in the Codex trumps that of the BRB?

That is exactly what he is saying. He fails to take into account that the codex was written for 5th edition rules that did not include allies. Since the FAQ only limits some abilities to units chosen from C:SM and not others in the context of the new codex (the old one with the new FAQ updates) it is perfectly legal.

I agree with you otherwise if it is defined by the Codex then wouldn't that also mean that C:SM couldn't take Allies at all nor Fortifications nor additional "detachments" at 2k points or higher?