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so far i have a 500 point army and im looking to expand to 1000 points.
There is only 2 of us playing so far here, so 500 point battles get old pretty fast, but since i havent been playing long painting and purchasing more models is slow going.
I dont know if going from 500 to 1000 changes army tactics and layout greatly but i would like to keep my 500 point army and just build off of it so as to avoid purchasing too many extra models even if its not optimal.

heres my 500 point list:
Rune priest MH - LL (i dont use JOTWW because we found it to be very devastating against his forces in 500pt in an almost unfair way...since we play for fun i opt to not use it)
grey hunter (8) 1x melta gun 1x MOTW
grey hunter (8) 1x melta gun 1x MOTW
long fangs (4) 4x missle launcher
long fang squad leader (1)
total point 495 (or if i put melta bombs on my RP just cause i can) 500 pts.

here is what id have already to put towards 1000 points
the terminator squad may not be optimal for 1000 points, but they just look so awesome i have to use them..also i already own them so why not, since funds are scarce for more models
wolf guard terminators (4) 4x wolf claw (1 per unit)
wolf guard terminator (1) 1x wolf claw 1x assault cannon

from here on i have no idea what i should be adding....ideas i had were:

another missile squad
increase hunter packs to 10 units and add a free flamer to each.
add 3x drop pods for dropping my hunters and terminators right into melee where they need to be while long fangs blast from afar
another rune priest?
a 3rd hunter squad of 10 or 3 squads at the 8
i have a scout squad that came with the battleforce but havent used them as well as the one drop pod.

basically i have 500 points spent on previous army, and the terminators are 210 points if my math is right for 710 spent. leaving 290 points that i have no idea what to do with.
any advice is greatly appreciated!

thanks in advance-

It sounds like you are going on foot. In that case add one SW to each grey hunter pack and a wolf guard.

So go to

10 GH: 2 x Melta Gun, MOTW and Standard
10 GH: 2 x Plasma Gun, MOTW and Standard
6 LF: 5 x Missile Launcher

3 x Wolf Guard: 1 with MOTW, 2 w Power Axe

If you can, switch out one of your WG terminators to have a Chain Fist. Face a dreadnought or vehicle and you will be happy.

That gives you leadership 9 on every thing and improves you counterattack chance to 5 out of 6 instead of 13 out of 18.

If he has psychers add the wolf item that improves your chance to counter spells.

If you have the points, add the 2nd longfang squad - either 5 heavy bolters or 5 missile launchers.

Any reason for the plasma guns over more meltas or flamers? meltas > plasma for tank busting. flamers > plasma infrantry
Are they more for the best of both worlds aspect? I completely forgot about standards. Those things are sick, thanks for that tip, definnitely putting those in. As for "on foot" as i said i could put in drop pods since my list was made as close range shooty with heavy assault punch. My plan was something like deploying long fangs and rune priest safely in the rear to poke from a distance while drop pods land within assault range of any threats for a burst of bolter/melta fire following by a charge to negate any shooty armies rear firing lines. is this a valid/usable tactic?

My assumption is that he saw that you are slogging and will lack mobility to put those flamers into play effectively. The plasma grants you some better range to soften units up while you close the gap. If you are going to use a pod or 2 then the flamers are still viable. It's really personal preference at that point.

I really have no tactical knowledge on what works since at 500 pts its mostly just a slugfest. I thought of using the drop pods since my largest threat as a foot army is shooty armies that light me up before i can get close. Since ive never used a pod though, im not really sure on the rules for when they come into play, when i can attack out of them, where exactly they land, or any such things that might make them a poor choice to use.
Are there any rules in particular I may be missing?

Plasma is king in 6th edition. You can move and fire twice. Nothing is safe from it. Also you get a snap fire before they hit you with a charge... So that is two shots from you at BS4 and then two shots at BS1 followed by a counter charge.

At 1000 pts, plasma is still a good AT weapon for what you will typically face.

The pain SW army I have faced went something like this...

1 Wolf Scout
2 Drop Pod Grey Hunters
2 Rhino Grey Hunters
1 Razorback Long Fang
and then whatever you want to fill it out.

Mind you it was when melta was king but the same principle applies.

We dont have a 6th rulebook yet. X.x Oh boy, even more things to try and relearn.
Since devastator packs only come with 5 models, my LF squads will have to stay at 5 per so as to avoid buying an extra kit for the 1 extra model. So using all I currently own and suggestions for spare points, is the following viable?

HQ - rune priest 100pts

Troops - 2x grey hunter x10 1x MOTW 1x standard 1x melta 1x plasma total : 360 points

Elite: wolf guard terminator squad listed above ( I know they probably aren't that viable but I want to use what I have for now) : 210 points

heavy support: long fangs x5 (1 squad leader) 3x missile launcher 1x heavy bolter (split fire) : 110 points
long fangs x 5 (1 squad leader) 3x heavy bolter 1x lascannon ( hurray for split fire again?)) or another x4 missile launcher : 115 points

dedicated transport: 3x drop pods (i own 1 already) or 3x rhino: 105 points
or 105 points on more troops with no vehicles at all. The suggested 3x wolf guard squad comes to 89 points and could go here.

I would add your wolf guard to each grey hunter squad first.
Also think about making one troop with 2 plasma and the other with 2 melta. I am just not a fan of mixed weapons in a squad.
Think of it this way, the enemy land raider is getting closer to you... You want to drop it so send the squad with two meltas at it rather than a squad that will miss 33% of time.
If you can, get one drop pod and use it to drop your terminators into harms way. Without combi-meltas probably not right on the enemy but definitely within 24" and in range of your two grey hunters to support.

The only reason i had the melta/plasma split was because i saved 5 points doing it that from the freebie weapon on a 10 man squad. I see your point and its worth 5 points to keep them together.

Is the only benefit to adding a WG to the GH pack the +1 leadership he has?

As for my LF squads, is 4x missiles in both squads better or worse than 4x missle and 3xHB 1x lascannon? same points cost i do believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Considering the new 6th ed rules for tank busting being apparently much easier to do which would be more useful:

10x grey hunter with 2x plasma gun - 160pts

9x grey hunter with 1x plasma + 1x wolf guard with combi plasma - 168 pts.

or even wolf guard with a storm bolter 166 pts.

nanaki658 wrote:The only reason i had the melta/plasma split was because i saved 5 points doing it that from the freebie weapon on a 10 man squad. I see your point and its worth 5 points to keep them together.

Is the only benefit to adding a WG to the GH pack the +1 leadership he has?

As for my LF squads, is 4x missiles in both squads better or worse than 4x missle and 3xHB 1x lascannon? same points cost i do believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Considering the new 6th ed rules for tank busting being apparently much easier to do which would be more useful:

10x grey hunter with 2x plasma gun - 160pts

9x grey hunter with 1x plasma + 1x wolf guard with combi plasma - 168 pts.

or even wolf guard with a storm bolter 166 pts.

A WG also has an extra attack, he can take a cheap(er) power weapon, and you can do look out sir's and challenges on him in 6th as he counts as independent character when he is a packleader. So some extra benefits. The combi weapons good as you've spotted. You can negate losing your second special weapon partly (if they're in a rhino/drop pod), and he brings them for 5 pts . Combi/Power Wpn on a Wolfguard is only 15pts.

Heavy bolters are pretty crap tbh. The missile launchers can fire frag anyways against infantry, and are nearly as likely to glance most tanks as a lascannon anyways using krak (admittedly not ap 2). Just dump them in a razorback so you get the TL Lascannon .

Heavy bolters are good for the cheap cost you have to pay. However, given a choice between 3xHB and 1 x LC, I would take the 4 ML. MK have better range and can take anything out except a landraider as well.

The extra attack and the 9 Ld is big. With counterattack, it is important that you get it off successfully. Now your librarian can give one squad a Ld 10 but it is cheap that even without the specials, I would spend the points and get a chainsword and bolt pistol guard in the squad.

I will give you another cheezy thing that the SW only can do.

5 Wolfguard - 4 with chainsword and bolt pistol, 1 in terminator armor with CML and wolf claw. 140
5 Wolfguard - 4 with chainsword and bolt pistol, 1 in terminator with CML and wolf claw. 140

now add to that, 5 grey hunters and 3 long fangs... attach the wolfguard with chainsword and bolt pistol to each squad. Now you are left with 2 squads of 1 terminator with a CML launcher.
The other is you can add one wolf guard in terminator armor to each squad. This means you can only consolidate, but it also gives you a 2+ armor and cheap power weapon in each squad.

If you have a pressure on elite slots, the other is to combined your wolfguard into 1 squad. The goal here is to get the squad to 10 so that you can qualify for two termies with assault cannons or CMLs.

Technically the WG don't really get an extra attack over a GH. Since a WG has 2 attacks default but a GH comes with 3 weapons in his wargear. So you can replace boltgun with say plasma and still retain the +1 attack from pistol and close combat weapon. WG wouldnt get the extra attack from 2 CC weapons if he upgraded his pistol to anything else like combi.

I definitely have a lot to think about now. I have a list im pretty happy with save for around points i dont know what to do with. I have no vehicles as of yet. My decision becomes either 2 vehicles or more units.

nanaki658 wrote: meltas > plasma for tank busting

This is true. But the problem is that in order to actually be true, the meltaguns have to get within 6". Against light armor (AV11 or AV10), you can glance-wreck with plasmaguns very easily from 24" away. Furthermore, if you get a penetrating hit, you'll get +1 on the damage roll because Plasma is AP2.

flamers > plasma infrantry.

This is false. Or rather, it is only true against swarms of infantry with 6+ armor or against bunched up infantry models in 3+ or 4+ cover. But again, you have to get very close in order to hit them with that flame template. Ask yourself which of these weapons is better against Space Marines - the most common army.

But here is the most important issue - Plasma is cheap AP2. You can't rely on your power weapons to cut through terminator armor anymore, so plasma is a good alternative.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

nanaki658 wrote:Technically the WG don't really get an extra attack over a GH. Since a WG has 2 attacks default but a GH comes with 3 weapons in his wargear. So you can replace boltgun with say plasma and still retain the +1 attack from pistol and close combat weapon. WG wouldnt get the extra attack from 2 CC weapons if he upgraded his pistol to anything else like combi.

This is all true except you forgot that you don't get an extra attack for having a pistol if you're using a specialist weapon like a power fist. So a stock grey hunter will only get 1 attack with a powerfist (2 on the charge or counter charge) while a wolf guard will still get 2 (3 on the charge or countercharge).

This is why a wolf guard can feel confident taking a combiweapon + power fist or a combiweapon + wolf claw.

I never actually knew about that specialist weapon rule for extra attacks, thanks for letting me know.