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Are there any from the novels(?) that have received alternate names?. I'd be looking to come up with a name for mine, but am just wondering about the thread topic.

So would anyone who's read the novels know?

GK's being Chapter 666 is rather outdated by this point, as they were established more or less before the Codex Astartes even came to be.

All the more reason for it to be 666. An honorific title/code number.
Say if they started with 100 chapters following the heresy, but let's call our super secret chapter number 666.

Eetion wrote:All the more reason for it to be 666. An honorific title/code number.
Say if they started with 100 chapters following the heresy, but let's call our super secret chapter number 666.

This is pretty close to what is stated. In the GK codex they state that during the Second Founding there were around 500 chapters being created, when the GK came back along with Titan the Inquisition gave them the number of 666,

They are still Chapter 666.

Chapter Numbers don't get used very much, but they still exist.

For example, the Dark Angels are Chapter 1(all the first founding Chapters kept their original Legion designation) and Ultramarines are Chapter 13.

CrashCanuck wrote:This is pretty close to what is stated. In the GK codex they state that during the Second Founding there were around 500 chapters being created, when the GK came back along with Titan the Inquisition gave them the number of 666,

Which of course makes no sense whatsoever... Ward pretty much wrecked the second founding fluff starting the Marine Codex.

Crimson wrote:

CrashCanuck wrote:This is pretty close to what is stated. In the GK codex they state that during the Second Founding there were around 500 chapters being created, when the GK came back along with Titan the Inquisition gave them the number of 666,

Which of course makes no sense whatsoever... Ward pretty much wrecked the second founding fluff starting the Marine Codex.

No, its still valid. What makes you think it isn't?

The GKs were created just before the Seige of Terra, but got put in the Warp and didn't emerge till after the second founding. So they got given a Chapter Number and designation. One more chapter wouldn't get noticed.

The GKs were deliberatly given that number BTW.

Eh, I meant the number of the second founding chapters. Five hundred is a total wardism.

How so?

There weren't anywhere near enough surviving loyalists to make 1000 chapters right off the bat.

Yeah, of course. But I'm pretty sure that before 5th ed marine dex there was like few dozen of them. The named second founding chapters were the only ones that existed.

No, the listed chapters are just those recorded. It not an exaustive list. It says "Known second founding chapters" IIRC.

They have always stated that there are many many more second founding chapters that have been lost in the depths of time.

Grey Templar wrote:No, the listed chapters are just those recorded. It not an exaustive list. It says "Known second founding chapters" IIRC.

They have always stated that there are many many more second founding chapters that have been lost in the depths of time.

I understood it to mean that were few more that were lost and forgotten. About 480 second founding chapters lost is ludicrous.

Did you seriously think they were going to list 500ish chapters in the fluff that were in the second founding?

They deliberatly left the slots open so people can make their own second founding chapter.

There used to be way less second founding chapters, although all were not named. For example 4th edition marine codex says that there were 23 Ultramarine successor chapters created during the second founding. 23, not 230 as it would have to be if there were about 500 second founding chapters in total. Ward multiplied the number of second founding chapters by ten. This is not a small chance.

(I'm personally sticking to the old fluff.)

EDIT: actually the current marine codex still says 23 UM successors. So the fuckup is in the GK book. 500 just won't add up.

I fail to see why retconning the fluff is a problem?

Grey Templar wrote:I fail to see why retconning the fluff is a problem?

It is not necessarily, but there should be a good reason for chancing something that has been so for decades. I can't see the benefit of this change. I assume it just to be an error in Grey Knights codex that got past the editor. Like Draigo.

Its ignorence about the codex creation process that annoys me.

Everyone assumes that, just because someone has his name on the cover that he did everything in the book.

False. Codices are actually a collaborative effort. The guy with the name on the cover is just the head of the design team.

Ward's signature is not in the fluff, its in the rules section. The fluff is almost certaintly written as a collective group. Random-fluff guy is probably the guy who wrote the Draigo fluff.



Lets compare the GK codex fluff to Space Wolf and BA fluff. "Wolfy wolf claws with wolftail talismans riding giant wolves" "Rage EMO bloodclaws and bloodtalons with bloodfists, with extra blood"


As a codex writer, Ward writes the most consistantly. Cruddance is what his name says, the IG codex is only good because even Cruddance writes 1 good unit for every 10 bad, and the IG codex and 10 bajillion units. Phil Kelly writes horribly OP or UP codices, you can't tell which is which. Ward writes consistantly.

I wish Ward was on board for all codices as his rules are awsome and you hardly ever have something totally useless.

Grey Templar wrote:No, the listed chapters are just those recorded. It not an exhaustive list. It says "Known second founding chapters" IIRC.

They have always stated that there are many many more second founding chapters that have been lost in the depths of time.

The small font on the bottom of the list mentioned the Apocrypha of Davio from M33 as source.
( codex SM, 3rd ,4th and 5th ed, codex DA too ).
Plus the bit of the apocrypha of skaros listing 23 successors of the UM without naming them all.
Codex Da specifies the source further, adding names and dates to each Legion's own small box at the right side of the chart.

Isn't a certain degree of lost data an expected part of it?
A new beginning with about 400 chapters is possible, given the new sizes of the Legions ( x10 ).

I'd say page 8 of codex SM stated the number of chapters of 2nd founding as unknown.

So we have Legions of hundreds of thousands of Space marines and again around a million marines in M41. We got 25 or so foundings to create the 1k chapters and we don't have and certainly don't need nor want them all to be named.
10 milllenia to cross, some made it to M41 and others ceased to exist. Do we know what happened at 3rd or 4th founding?
21th, the cursed one, was said to be the biggest after 2nd founding. Had again only a few chapters named ...

The Grey knights got n°666, since one deemed names and numbers important IMO. The 400 are just there to make a point, to show how they were placed on purpose as n°666.
Would anything change if C: GK had only a 200 chapters in this small piece of fluff?