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My search foo is failing and anouther post reminded me of this question.

Say unit X multiassualts into unit A and B.

Unit X has an IC engaged in combat with unit A.

Unit B has an IC that issues a challange to unit X.

Now the IC in unit X is engaged in the combat. By RAW that is all that is required to be challanged. (Unless I am missing something and I might).

Does he have to accept/decline the challange or is not able to be challanged in the first place? And does the answer change if he is within 2" of a freindly model engaged in BtB with unit B?

You can only issue a challenge if it is your turn. Therefore, Unit B cannot issue a challenge to Unit X, only accept or refuse it.

Because you assaulted into two units, it's the opponents choice who who he accepts the challenge with, all you do is pick the model you issue the challenge with.

dufus0001 wrote:You can only issue a challenge if it is your turn. Therefore, Unit B cannot issue a challenge to Unit X, only accept or refuse it.

No, either player can issue a challenge; the only thing is that the player whose turn it is gets to choose whether to issue a challenge or not first. If he doesn't challenge, then the other player may do so. (RB p64)

To the OP: unfortunately, the challenge rules seem to have been written only for simple (i.e. not multi) combats. But you're right, the character simply needs to be able to fight at all in order to accept a challenge.

Engaged means either in base contact, or within 2" of a friendly model that is in base contact in the same combat. In the first round(s) of combat, it's entirely possible a character that is too far removed from the combat, cannot issue or accept challenges or be the target of a refused challenge.

So it you have a character you want to avoid being challenged in the turn you assault, try to make sure neither your character nor your opponent's character is engaged after the charge. As challenges are issued before pile-in moves, you can still attack with your character if you keep it within 3" outside that 2" engaged range.

Nothing is stopping B's IC from issuing a challenge - he is engaged with an enemy model.

Nothing is stopping X's IC from accepting - he too is engaged with an enemy model in the same combat.

This might result in quite a mighty leap for either of the characters:

B's IC will attempt to get in BtB by swapping places with one member of unit A, unless that breaks unit coherency.

If he can't, X's IC will swap places with one of his own to get to BtB.

The distance a character can move during a swap is not limited by the rules, you only have to maintain coherency.

Ok that is how I thought it would work, but it felt... strange. Not sure if it is abusable or not. I just know I got into a debate when a terminator Deathstar multiassaulted into a brood of 2 Genestealers with a broodlord and a unit of Hormigaunts. The other player told me he did it so that he could put the IC into the hormigaunts and hope that the 3 terminators he sent to deal with the stealers would keep the broodlord off of him (Note I run some very nastly broodlords that can slaughter almost any model in the game). He though that if he was in combat with anouther brood that only the brood he was in BtB with could challange. I though he was right, but made a note to take a better look at it when I got home.

Looks like I should have made the challange.

So if I am reading the rules right, the challenge is issued prior to the initiative step. Thus a lowly IG sergeant (I3) could issue a challenge to a dark eldar wyches (I6) squad before anyone makes any pile-in moves or attacks? And if he choose not to the wyches would have the opportunity to challenge. And after that challenges are done for that turn. Is this accurate?

Gloomfang wrote:Ok that is how I thought it would work, but it felt... strange. Not sure if it is abusable or not. I just know I got into a debate when a terminator Deathstar multiassaulted into a brood of 2 Genestealers with a broodlord and a unit of Hormigaunts. The other player told me he did it so that he could put the IC into the hormigaunts and hope that the 3 terminators he sent to deal with the stealers would keep the broodlord off of him (Note I run some very nastly broodlords that can slaughter almost any model in the game). He though that if he was in combat with anouther brood that only the brood he was in BtB with could challange. I though he was right, but made a note to take a better look at it when I got home.

Looks like I should have made the challange.

You and he both know that Characters (including those with the IC rule) are not "separate" during assaults anymore, right? Meaning, your stealers could have still put wounds on that Character of his. I guess what I'm saying is, it didn't really matter for him or you what squad he put it in contact with his Character it just had potential to limit the split attacks between the squads, but with your pile in moves and such you should have easily gotten your stealers within 2" or in b2b with that character (I assume your stealers would have piled in first).

Redemption wrote:Engaged means either in base contact, or within 2" of a friendly model that is in base contact in the same combat. In the first round(s) of combat, it's entirely possible a character that is too far removed from the combat, cannot issue or accept challenges or be the target of a refused challenge.

So it you have a character you want to avoid being challenged in the turn you assault, try to make sure neither your character nor your opponent's character is engaged after the charge. As challenges are issued before pile-in moves, you can still attack with your character if you keep it within 3" outside that 2" engaged range.

Seeing as you're forced to get your characters as close to the combat as possible that is a highly unlikely situation. Basically for pile in moves you're required to move characters first so you can't block lanes of movement with other guys prior to moving them. *Shrug*

Kevin949 wrote:

Redemption wrote:Engaged means either in base contact, or within 2" of a friendly model that is in base contact in the same combat. In the first round(s) of combat, it's entirely possible a character that is too far removed from the combat, cannot issue or accept challenges or be the target of a refused challenge.

So it you have a character you want to avoid being challenged in the turn you assault, try to make sure neither your character nor your opponent's character is engaged after the charge. As challenges are issued before pile-in moves, you can still attack with your character if you keep it within 3" outside that 2" engaged range.

Seeing as you're forced to get your characters as close to the combat as possible that is a highly unlikely situation. Basically for pile in moves you're required to move characters first so you can't block lanes of movement with other guys prior to moving them. *Shrug*

Where does it state you have to move characters first?

Edit: Ah, found it on page 63. Regardless, if your character is too far back to make it into base contact/within 2" (there's no requirement he has to be in the front in the Movement phase), even if he has to move first, he'll still be out of range for Challenges.

 Redemption wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Redemption wrote:Engaged means either in base contact, or within 2" of a friendly model that is in base contact in the same combat. In the first round(s) of combat, it's entirely possible a character that is too far removed from the combat, cannot issue or accept challenges or be the target of a refused challenge.

So it you have a character you want to avoid being challenged in the turn you assault, try to make sure neither your character nor your opponent's character is engaged after the charge. As challenges are issued before pile-in moves, you can still attack with your character if you keep it within 3" outside that 2" engaged range.

Seeing as you're forced to get your characters as close to the combat as possible that is a highly unlikely situation. Basically for pile in moves you're required to move characters first so you can't block lanes of movement with other guys prior to moving them. *Shrug*

Where does it state you have to move characters first?

Edit: Ah, found it on page 63. Regardless, if your character is too far back to make it into base contact/within 2" (there's no requirement he has to be in the front in the Movement phase), even if he has to move first, he'll still be out of range for Challenges.

Oh, absolutely true, I was just saying it was highly unlikely as you can't control where your opponent will keep his guys or how he'll pile in.