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Are krak grenades worth the points on infantry squads?

With the changes to the vehicle damage table and how assault works on vehicles, I think there's a good argument for their inclusion. I don't know, however, that such an investment is worth it on already squishy squads.

Do all the models get them or just one? I don't know your codex how much for the upgrade?

I you do take them it means you cant auto fall back because of our weapons are useless if something like a dread assaults you

All models in the IS take them. I'm not sure if the HWS takes 2 or just 1.

I think they might be good due to Death or Glory, if he dies just throw a ton of kraks on him next turn.

The single model with a single statline takes one krak grenade.

I don't think it is worth it, it is simply too expensive for an army wide upgrade. I always baulk at 20% base cost upgrades, they have to be pretty good to take. Maybe I am undervaluing the throw ability though, it is like an extra special weapon in the squad, one which can't be picked off either.

Thankee. And on Pg 62, shooting with grenades. If a unit is armed with them, 1 model can choose to throw them. Does that means *just* 1 model, or each model can choose?

Only one per unit. I would love to throw ten frag grenades at something, although it would take forever to work out the scatters.

That's a shame. They also don't have a damage profile for assaulting apart from stopping initiative lose, which for IG is meh.

Yeah, they're one of those things that are good now, but actually worth taking? My favorite thing (other than throwing them), is that they work on monstrous creatures now, making PISs MUCH better against MCs. The problem is that the PISs need to survive long enough to use them.

Perhaps if you were running armored fists. That way you could fire a heavy weapon, a special weapon, and lob a grenade out the hatch. With a grenade launcher and heavy bolter on a HB+ML chimera, you're talking about doing 6 S5 attacks and 5 S6 attacks at short range.

I dunno...

All for the low low cost of 120 points, only to get assaulted next turn.

...at which point they overwatch whoever is charging the vehicle.

And then shoot the bad guys at point blank range the next turn.

And then overwatch AGAIN when the bad guys charge in.

You get 2 and 2/3ds of a round of shooting at them before they lay a finger on your guardsmen.

In a blob squad having 10 men with kraks is ok, they'll long enough to use them and does make the blob a bit more of a threat.

If you infantry squads to kill things and you want to spend points, then just get veteran squads.

Useful in a blob squad, where 1 unit in 3 takes the upgrade. Also potentially useful within an of MSU, as for a small 10pt upgrade, one or two of your 4+ infantry squads can get krak grenades.

You'd need to model your men with krak grenades differently so you aren't cheating your opponent.

No real effect on tactics, but it can be a pain making 10 men out of a 30+ strong blob stand out in a way that it's clear 'hey! we're slightly more dangerous! Good thing we're in the third rank, neener neener!'

Lokas wrote:You'd need to model your men with krak grenades differently so you aren't cheating your opponent.
'

Squad markings take care of that, as in only 1st squad has kraks. I just give my sgts meltabombs instead. Half the cost and far more effective against vehicles, especially vs dreads under the new rules. You do lose the ability to throw one grenade a turn while shooting, but meh, no biggie. And @ trickstick, I don't think kraks scatter, they are either hit or miss.

macc92 wrote:I you do take them it means you cant auto fall back because of our weapons are useless if something like a dread assaults you

Yes, auto fall back and hope you roll higher than the dread to see if you get cut down..

Jihallah wrote:

macc92 wrote:I you do take them it means you cant auto fall back because of our weapons are useless if something like a dread assaults you

Yes, auto fall back and hope you roll higher than the dread to see if you get cut down..

Yep, I'd rather stay and kill the Dread...................

It's way to expensive for single squads. I like it for one squad in blobs to give the squad something to do against vehicles and MCs, although like Don, I usually go with meltabombs because they're just that much better. I guess if you find yourself against a lot of characters MCs, Kraks might be the right choice so you're not afraid of losing one guy with all your killing power.

Consider that for single squads, it's halfway to a squad of Vets, who come with Krak grenades and so much more.

don_mondo wrote:

Jihallah wrote:

macc92 wrote:I you do take them it means you cant auto fall back because of our weapons are useless if something like a dread assaults you

Yes, auto fall back and hope you roll higher than the dread to see if you get cut down..

Yep, I'd rather stay and kill the Dread...................

In this case, yeah. You use WS against walkers now.

10 krak attacks will yield roughly 5 hits. Not too difficult to fish for a 6 in that big of a pond. Especially if the dread is already damaged, it would be very possible for infantry with krak grenades to finish it off.

Well, I meant kill it with Meltabombs.............

ah.

You know, there isn't as much of a gap as there used to be, though. 1 meltabomb vs. 10 krak grenades is no longer quite so decidedly skewed towards the meltabomb.

Vets come with Krak grenades. Can anyone explain to me why they make the Vets so much deadlier... Sorry I just started 40k again and I dont get why Krak grenades are so good. Some blogs Ive seen say they are really good now.

Another question, you cant assault with Krak grenades at S6 can you...thought it was only throwing that you get those stats.

Thanks

-You can throw one grenade 8inches in shooting phase
-Hitting vehicles is now WS, even against walkers (no more sixes to hit)
-You can use them on monstrous critters

Overall, they just got better. Assaulting with kraks only effects vehicles or MCs.

 McGibs wrote:
-You can throw one grenade 8inches in shooting phase
-Hitting vehicles is now WS, even against walkers (no more sixes to hit)
-You can use them on monstrous critters

Overall, they just got better. Assaulting with kraks only effects vehicles or MCs.

Thanks man. So you can assault the vehicles with s 6 at ws and hit rear armor correct? If so...that's awesome. Thanks for your reply

Yup! Vehicles are either WS0 (if they dont move) or WS1 (if they move), so you hit them automatically, or on a 3+. Hits are against rear armour.

Dreads are his vs their own WS. Hits are against front armour, or rear armour if immobilized.

 McGibs wrote:
Yup! Vehicles are either WS0 (if they dont move) or WS1 (if they move), so you hit them automatically, or on a 3+. Hits are against rear armour.

Dreads are his vs their own WS. Hits are against front armour, or rear armour if immobilized.

Aaahh thanks for opening my eyes I get it now. Krak is awesome on those crappy weak vets. Haha

I think you need to play marines then drop down to IG or black templars or any non krak grenade force to fully appreciate them:
It becomes a weapon in your arsenal, doesn't matter what happens you know you can assault tanks if they get close and give it a go. There are not many tanks that will not die to kraks, and many hard vehicles have really weak back armour.

Same goes for frags as well.

Also throwing a krak is actually really fun.

I think if you know you will be up against an opponent with a lot of MCs or vehicles taking squads equipped with krak might be worth it.

I'm wondering about the mathhammer comparing the difference in effectiveness between a platoon squad upgraded with krak grenades or a vet squad with demolitions. Worth the +40 points/squad for all meltabombs?