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Cato Sicarius-200
Elite 1: 8 Sternguard vet (x3 combi-melta/plasmas, x2 plasma rifles, power axe, melta bombs, Rhino)-285p
Troop1: Tactical squad (10 man, power weapon, melta bomb, lascannon, Meltagun, rhino)-240pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, power weapon, melta bomb, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, rhino)-225pts
F/A1: StormTalon w/ typhoon missile launcher-155p
F/A 2: StormTalon w/ Typhoon missile launcher-155p
H/S 1: Vindicator (Extra stormbolter)-125p
H/S 2: Vindicator (Extra stormbolter)-125p
H/S 3: Devastator squad( x3 missile launchers, plasma cannon)-160pts
Fort: Ageis defense line (Icarius lascannon)-75pts


Alright, tactics time!

Took Cato because he is kinda unique at my club and I was hearing about how good combat tactics could be now. I like his rules and wargear, plus I think it will benefit my army more, seeing as I have more tact squads than melta things and sternguard stuff. I know vulkan is cheaper

My plan is to split up Troop 1, placing the lascannon squad in the ageis defense line Circle along with the devastator squad to provide long range fire. since I can give a tact squad tank hunter, Troop one will be geared more towards vehicle hunting while troop 2 could be given counter-assault to be more for infantry hunting. Cato will ride with the sternguard as the three rhinos will drive forward with the vindicators.

Good idea?

If you are running Sternguard it makes a lot of sense to vote for Pedro as your HQ and at 1750 points I think you will need that 3rd scoring unit.

I do not generally like to mix and match a Devastator unit as generaly something either cannot shoot or the unit cannot optimize the targets it chooses. I would either got all ML or all Plasma Cannons. While the cannons are more risky and not quite as good at popping armor nobody likes having to face those en masse.

Seems like a solid list and concept. Mostly just preference tweaks.

I don't like anything that take the special ammo away from sternguard, drop the plasma guns.

If you are planning to combat squad, get a razorback rather then a rhino. Extra firepower for minimal points.

At this point scale, I'd like to see at least one more troop pick, even if it's a 5 man sniper scout squad.

I'd drop the Dev squad for the points. After getting the scouts, you should have enough left over to grab some mobile melta (speeder or attack bike, depending on preference) With the pair of Vinis, the devs are a little redundant, and not the best unit to start with.

Seems like a sound plan.

You have too many points invested in the sternguard rhino. It becomes a big target.

If you want a plasma unit I would take a command squad so they have FNP, plus a load of plasma.
Sternguard are great but in the one case of wanting to plasma something I would take a command squad.

The general advice would be give a tactical squad tank hunter and get them to man the ADL lascannon, though they would be better manning a quad gun instead, 4 st8 shots becomes quite the vehicle killer. Get the serg. to man it to get the odd precision shot.

Devastators are quite expensive really. I would prefer most of the other options.

Powerweapons are probably not needed, try to combat tactic out of combat to rapid fire the enemy instead. Also the poweraxe means you will hit last in any challenge and so Han Solo will kill you.

I think I would really tempted to:
drop devastator squad
drop powerweapons
drop sternguard

bring in stormtalon(they are dead shooty, they can't kill them all)
upgrade rhinos to razorbacks(they give you an extra big gun, whilst it means you have units to hide in the ADL.)
Bring plasma carrying command squad+sniper scout with camo cloaks(also to hide behind the ADL.)

Hialmar wrote:If you are running Sternguard it makes a lot of sense to vote for Pedro as your HQ and at 1750 points I think you will need that 3rd scoring unit.

I do not generally like to mix and match a Devastator unit as generaly something either cannot shoot or the unit cannot optimize the targets it chooses. I would either got all ML or all Plasma Cannons. While the cannons are more risky and not quite as good at popping armor nobody likes having to face those en masse.

it is only one squad of sternguard and while another scoreing unit would be nice, I was thinking about putting 5 tacts in a razorback and sitting them in back or something. plus I have a cato model all ready and not so much a pedro model

Nevelon wrote:Seems like a solid list and concept. Mostly just preference tweaks.

I don't like anything that take the special ammo away from sternguard, drop the plasma guns.

If you are planning to combat squad, get a razorback rather then a rhino. Extra firepower for minimal points.

At this point scale, I'd like to see at least one more troop pick, even if it's a 5 man sniper scout squad.

I'd drop the Dev squad for the points. After getting the scouts, you should have enough left over to grab some mobile melta (speeder or attack bike, depending on preference) With the pair of Vinis, the devs are a little redundant, and not the best unit to start with.

see above post for the extra troop

I plan on only combat squadding one unit (the lascannon/meltagun) so I would have more scouring units on the table while providing a better firebase against tanks and other units. plush with a cheap rhino my meltagunner and try a drive by on a tank sometime with a fire port. also im afraid the tank hunter special rule I give them would go to waste as they cant pass it onto their transport.

Now, onto the devastator squads and vindi's. personal experience for me, vindis without long range fire support suck. sure they have the Feth You cannon but it is a long trudge to get it into range before dropping a pie plate on anything. By then they usually lose one or two hullpoints and are mulch the next turn. now the devastator's job here is to krack any armor/melt any soilders that will threaten my tanks before the vindis get in range.

Sound plausible?

I like the stormtalons and making use of Cato. (BTW what is Cato's special? Don't have the codex...)
Off hand you are short of troops and I question the vindicators.. In my experience, they are a psychological threat that rarely pays off...

So Cato 200
3 Stormtalons 465
AGL with Las 75
2 Tacticals 465
1205

Thoughts...
5 Snipers with ML and Telion. Telion mounts the Icarus.
with Camo cloaks they will be a hard kill in the AGL.

A command squad with 4 Plasma Guns... decent AT, and FNP to protect them from gets hot.

Another tactical - give it a plasma gun and plasma cannon. This can be your anti infantry squad, Otherwise another lascannon.

Sternguard - either plain or with HW and combi-weapons.

My thoughts on sternguard... they have the greatest bolt gun and are great anti-personnel. They do get a healthy discount on heavy weapons but you don't want to waste the bolters... So the only ones I will consider is heavy bolter, missile launcher or plasma cannon. I like the comb-meltas but only with a drop pod or a full-out vulkan rhino rush list. Then the special counter attack unit, 2 heavy flamers and a sergent with a power weapon or fist...

Just another thought, if you are looking for a great counterattack unit, think about an honor guard - AC2 means immune to power weapons. All armed with power weapons means death to anything in AC3. The problem of course is you need a chapter master rather than a captain.

You have a primarily shooty army so I would think about adding a librarian. Choose one of the alternate choices instead of the core choices... This provides psychic protection which you will be thankful for if you ever face a tyranid or CSM Lash list. The librarian can also be a good choice to man the Icarus instead of the snipers.

DAaddict wrote:I like the stormtalons and making use of Cato. (BTW what is Cato's special? Don't have the codex...)
Off hand you are short of troops and I question the vindicators.. In my experience, they are a psychological threat that rarely pays off...

So Cato 200
3 Stormtalons 465
AGL with Las 75
2 Tacticals 465
1205

Thoughts...
5 Snipers with ML and Telion. Telion mounts the Icarus.
with Camo cloaks they will be a hard kill in the AGL.

A command squad with 4 Plasma Guns... decent AT, and FNP to protect them from gets hot.

Another tactical - give it a plasma gun and plasma cannon. This can be your anti infantry squad, Otherwise another lascannon.

Sternguard - either plain or with HW and combi-weapons.

My thoughts on sternguard... they have the greatest bolt gun and are great anti-personnel. They do get a healthy discount on heavy weapons but you don't want to waste the bolters... So the only ones I will consider is heavy bolter, missile launcher or plasma cannon. I like the comb-meltas but only with a drop pod or a full-out vulkan rhino rush list. Then the special counter attack unit, 2 heavy flamers and a sergent with a power weapon or fist...

Just another thought, if you are looking for a great counterattack unit, think about an honor guard - AC2 means immune to power weapons. All armed with power weapons means death to anything in AC3. The problem of course is you need a chapter master rather than a captain.

You have a primarily shooty army so I would think about adding a librarian. Choose one of the alternate choices instead of the core choices... This provides psychic protection which you will be thankful for if you ever face a tyranid or CSM Lash list. The librarian can also be a good choice to man the Icarus instead of the snipers.

the tanks are there for shooting things and for targets

Why does everyone hate plasmaguns on sternguard? just curious. they have the same range as the bolters and they can melt and glance most things. besides i still have 12 shots from the regular bolters...

oh and cato's special rulez are: re-roll for inititave steal, one shot chance to insta-kill in CCW, and can give one tactical squad (and only the tactical squads) either Scout, infiltrate, Counter-attack and tankhunter. one tank-hunting combat squad on the icarius and two lascannons that re-roll pens.

Any more tips?

It's not that plasma guns are bad, it's that the special ammo is that good, and you are throwing it away. Worse then that, you are paying points for the luxury of throwing it away. How many times is the plasma going to be significantly better then the special ammo? If the answer is "probably one, two on the off chance" then get a combi plasma. If the answer is "maybe one" the consider just forgoing it and spend the points elsewhere.

If you just want it for the strength, you have the wound on a 2+ ammo.
If you want it to cut through MEQ, you have the AP3 rounds.
If you want to glance vehicles, take c-melta
If you need to shoot terminators to death, you have a valid point. But how many terminators you planning on running across? If your answer is one unit, then a handful of combis should do a number on them.

Most terminator units are small and can be taken down with massed bolter fire anyway. Nobody rolls ones like terminators...

A single sternguard costs you 25 points... This is with the most awesome bolter in the world. Capable of wounding anything on a 2+, shooting to range 30", ignoring AC4 or even AC3. You pay a lot for the plasma guns - IMO- for little return.

Think about the command squad instead, it gives you 4 plasma guns for - I believe - 165. They enhance the sternguard and give you 4 extra PITA shots to hit your opponent.

The vindicators are a matter of choice, I find they will be fire magnets and will quickly either be smoking or dinged and unable to fire. I don't like them unless I am trying to rhino rush and overwhelm them with everything. The range of 24" means they won't be firing with your army but denying the enemy to advance. I guess if you are dead set on vehicles, I would go with 2 AC/Las preds or 3 AC/HB preds.

Cato's tank hunter is worthwhile but think about a generic chapter master. It unlocks honor guard and gives you one orbital strike.

Also if you noticed in my suggestion, I snuck in a 3rd stormtalon. I like this for its ability to affect the battlefield and its relative safety from most of the opponents fire. If you think you need additional anti-tank or anti-infantry, then add the predators but I think you have it covered with those 3. Then you add extra troops or landspeeders with MM.

hmmmm alright I see your point. Although I may only cut down to one plasmagun on my sternguard I dont think it's throwing it away though. sure combi-plasmas are the shiz for sternguard, but I want some extra omph and insurance that I can still pack a bigger punch. they still wound on a 2+ and can punch through armor. the Vengence rounds (AP3) can kill MEQ but need a 4+ at best. with cato, i'll be shooting 5 plasma shots and 12 special ammo shots in rapid fire, hardly throwing the ammunition away.

I was looking at the command squad for plasma, but I need to ask: can they take 2 plasma pistols? might be fun to do

Vindis do get blown up a lot, but still are fun to play at times

and the third stormtalon would sound awesome, although I would still want some heavy support and things on turn one.


How would this list do against standard longfang spam and other armies? not well at all?

Alright, sorry for being a stubborn arse last time I posted, just was having a really hard day then alright, since I may be getting dark vengance before the arges and extra stormtalon, here is what I'm adding with starter set stuff:


Cato Sicarius-200
Elite 1: 8 Sternguard vet (x3 combi-melta/plasmas, x2 plasma rifles, power axe, melta bombs, Rhino)-290p
Troop1: Tactical squad (10 man, power weapon, melta bomb, lascannon, Meltagun, rhino)-240pts
Troop 2: Tactical squad (10 man, power weapon, melta bomb, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, rhino)-225pts
Troop 3: Tactical squad (10 man, plasma pistol, melta bombs, flamer, plasma cannon, Heavy bolter razorback)-235p
F/A1: StormTalon w/ typhoon missile launcher-155p
F/A 2: bike squad: attack bike w/ multi-melta, plasma rifle, meltabombs-160p
H/S 1: Vindicator-115p
H/S 2: Vindicator-115p


leaving me 15 points left over.

Sounds good?

You can add a second special weapon to the bike squad.

There is an empty seat in the sternguard's rhino. I'd bump the squad to 9+Cato, but mostly because I like seeing full 10 man units.

With combat tactics you can try to get out of bad combats, and back into good shooting. I'd not equip your sergeants as well and save the points for something else. You could get a MM speeder for example. That's a preference thing though, I'm a scrooge with wargear.

Overall looking good.

sweet, thanks!

So do the dark vengeance guys look good too? I know nothing about bike combat

They look fine, just too ravenwing for me to bother adding to my collection. And without seeing the sprues, I'm not sure how hard they will be to modify.

I have a small unit of bikes, they do OK for me. 6th did good things for them. They are sturdier, and directional wound allocation made mobile firepower stronger. A small unit makes for a nice harassment unit. If it draws to much ire, it's going to die, but it should take a reasonable amount of fire to erase it from the board. And that's fire that's not going into the rest of your army.

hmmmm so what do you think about adding the devastators and ageis defense line to this new list to make an even 2010?

and would a quad gun be better than an icarius?