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When using Force weapons vs Deamons, do they get there 2+ save thing they have even if I dont activate the force part?

Yes. Since its a force weapon none the less. See Gk are good at fighting them and Khone with the blessing of the blood God ae good at Fighting Grey Knights.

Yeah, unfortunantly.

But only certain Khorne units have it, and IIRC they have to buy it. Its not standard.

IIRC only Flesh Hounds and Bloodthirsters(maybe DPs) can get it. So Bloodletters only have their 5+.

Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

?? Uh, aren't GK force weapons all AP3 since they're unusual force weapons?

Or are you just talking about GK vs. Daemons with this?

Kevin949 wrote:

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

?? Uh, aren't GK force weapons all AP3 since they're unusual force weapons?

All of them except Daemonhammers and Doomfists, those are still AP2

DeathReaper wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

?? Uh, aren't GK force weapons all AP3 since they're unusual force weapons?

All of them except Daemonhammers and Doomfists, those are still AP2

LoL No, it's DOOOOOOOOOOOMfists. Ugh.

But ya, other than those two. Ok, thanks, just got confused there for a minute.

Aren't we talking about their 2+ vs psykic save?

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what was said here, but are you implying that BoBG does not grant a 2+ save against force weapons?

Technically the Nemesis Greatsword is also AP3, but because it's only ever wielded by an MC (Dreadknight), it is always resolved at AP2.

DoW

EDIT - I think the issue is that BoBG requires the power to target or 'affect' the model. Some people don't agree that Force Weapons target the model directly and so wouldn't prompt a save.

Personally, I play that a force weapon doesn't have the psychic, BoBG activating portion until the psychic test has been taken to activate the weapon. YMMV.

GreyChaos wrote:

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what was said here, but are you implying that BoBG does not grant a 2+ save against force weapons?

Why would it?

Sothas wrote:

GreyChaos wrote:

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what was said here, but are you implying that BoBG does not grant a 2+ save against force weapons?

Why would it?

Pg. 74 Chaos Daemons Dex BoBG final line.

GreyChaos wrote:

Sothas wrote:

GreyChaos wrote:

Sothas wrote:Two things here.

1. The force weapon is not a psykic power if not activated.

2. The force special rule is a special psykic test that uses a warp charge that targets the weapon, not the enemy.

Conclusion: No save ever vs force weapons.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what was said here, but are you implying that BoBG does not grant a 2+ save against force weapons?

Why would it?

Pg. 74 Chaos Daemons Dex BoBG final line.

Something tells me I'm going to feel stupid because that line is going to specifically say force weapons and I'm at work with no codex

Indeed it does

In you defense though, you might have it confused with Kharn's BoBG which grants him immunity to psychic powers and causes force weapons to count as power weapons.

Well poo... feel free to ignore my post. Here am I thinking it was just powers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And worked like DtW

As the wording of the daemon book states that it works against force weapons, it does indeed work against nemesis force weapons. Eternal Warrior prevents them from the Instant death ability of force. Blessings, nor Eternal Warrior, protect you from Daemonbane pg54 IIRC, didn't know it worked on psykers as well, which happens after saves.

Blessing does NOT protect you from Daemonbane. Nothing does. Once you've taken that wound, its Ld test or get removed from play !


Immunity to Psychic powers doesn't protect anyone from Force Weapon activations, because they don't target the victim. Evidence: you can't DTW FW activation(specifically called out as an example of what you can't DTW on)

Also, the way the power works is the Psyker causes his Weapon to gain the ID special ability. Nothing is ever mentioned about the victim being the target.


But BotBG doesn't care. It gives a 2++ save against all wounds caused by Force Weapons, activated or not. a non-activated FW is still a Force Weapon afterall.

Grey Templar wrote:Blessing does NOT protect you from Daemonbane. Nothing does. Once you've taken that wound, its Ld test or get removed from play !


Immunity to Psychic powers doesn't protect anyone from Force Weapon activations, because they don't target the victim. Evidence: you can't DTW FW activation(specifically called out as an example of what you can't DTW on)

Also, the way the power works is the Psyker causes his Weapon to gain the ID special ability. Nothing is ever mentioned about the victim being the target.


But BotBG doesn't care. It gives a 2++ save against all wounds caused by Force Weapons, activated or not. a non-activated FW is still a Force Weapon afterall.

#1 You are outstandingly correct and its part of the reason I am going to love fielding my shiny new Bloodthirster.

#2 How the fething fethburgers do you get 17k posts? I mean, really . . . go outside. Lol

Boneblade wrote:

#2 How the fething fethburgers do you get 17k posts? I mean, really . . . go outside. Lol

I has no life

But I'm heading off to college now so thats going to change(yay Cal Poly!)