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Rambling post ahoy!

I grew up in a small village in the north west highlands, I left when I was 18 and I have been returning with reducing frequency ever since and I hadn't actually been there for 6 years before this week. Despite that it will always be my home even though it is highly likely that I will never live there ever again. I find it extremely unlikely that anywhere else will ever feel like home for me in the same way.

I was fishing off the shore standing on the same rock where my father taught me how to fish (and I taught my future wife) with the black waters of the Minch stretching all the way to Skye with no sign of anything man made to be seen (as long as I didn't turn too far to the right) and I felt a tremendous sense of place, greater than the run of the mill nostalgia that I had been feeling for the rest of the trip.

My family have lived there literally since before records began and the West Highlands have their own distinct culture and language. The problem though is basically one of economics, there is very little money there. Aside from fishing, local services and tourism there is hardly any industry with most people earning minimum wage and as a result virtually everyone leaves as soon as they finish school (about 90% of my class left and they now live all over the world).

Subsistence farming lasted longer in the West Highlands than probably anywhere in Britain, the post war generation grew up in such an environment, and that fostered a very strong sense of community and of course everyone spoke Gaelic. Basically it was like the Amish but the lack of technology was due to poverty rather than choice and everyone drank like fish. People have always left to make money but since the war more and more people seem to be leaving and fewer seem to be returning which leaves empty houses which are bought up by people from outside the area, usually English retirees.

This community spirit was still alive when I was growing up but now it is all but dead and my generation was the first where most people can't speak Gaelic. My close relations have either died and left the area and virtually everyone I knew in school has gone as well. Aside from some elderly distant relations I recognized only a handful of people during my stay, even the girl serving in the chippy was from Eastern Europe. I have no reason to feel attached to the people who now live in my old home and the West Highlands of my youth is now a lost world.

TLR version: I feel attached to the place but not the people of my home but I have quite unique circumstances.

Simply put. It's not where you are in life it's the company you keep.

That sounds a lot like my story. I love Northern Maine, and own land there on the farm where I grew up, but I really don't feel like it's home anymore.
I've built myself a new life here in the west and have people around me that are more like family to me than Blood relations where I was born.
As Thomas Wolfe wrote, "You can't go home again."

Relapse wrote:
As Thomas Wolfe wrote, "You can't go home again."

So, that's who says it... I was just going to say the same thing.

Relapse wrote:
That sounds a lot like my story. I love Northern Maine, and own land there on the farm where I grew up, but I really don't feel like it's home anymore.

That's the thing though, it is still my home even though I hardly even know any of the people who live there now. I am also quite resentful of the new, and almost uniformly hideous, holiday homes that have started to spring up in the area.

Palindrome wrote:

Relapse wrote:
That sounds a lot like my story. I love Northern Maine, and own land there on the farm where I grew up, but I really don't feel like it's home anymore.

That's the thing though, it is still my home even though I hardly even know any of the people who live there now. I am also quite resentful of the new, and almost uniformly hideous, holiday homes that have started to spring up in the area.

That's one advantage of where I lived in Maine. Unless a person is born there or used to long, dark and cold winters, they more than likely looking for the fastest way out after they've enjoyed what is in essence, an eight month winter in a place with a low population. For somereason, lots of Scotts, my own ancestors among them, settled here.
I was at a party on the beach in southern Maine and had a row of houses pointed out to me and described as being built by people that had them put up with an eye towards living there year round after spending the summer. After their first winter, 4 of 5 houses went up for sale, and the second winter was enough for the occupents of the last house.

People can give you all sorts of things, new experiences and insights, thoughts and feelings; they can do things to inspire you and, most importantly, create things with you - feelings, thoughts, and so on. A place, no matter how beautiful or nostalgic, without people is merely an empty shell, a keep of memories. Whether they are good or bad is entirely dependant on the people that are or were there, including you.

Our experiences are different, no doubt. But for me, I'd always return to the people I miss than the place I miss.

^^ what he said

I remember so many good times in Places that feel abandoned. My shed I used to "party" in with my friends, all of whom I don't talk to anymore. The secret place we knew about. The pond il never go to again. The Christmas parties I had that I'll never have again. Makes you feel alone.

My life consisted mostly of video games. Jesus Christ I had a lot of online friends. All of whom who I'll never speak to again. I remember when I was 12 playing avp 2 I joined a game "friends of blah blah only" I kept joining over and over after they kicked me countless times I finally convinced the guy I met him before.

We had a blast with all 8 of us doing stupid gak on the map. Laughing and having a good time. We even reenacted aliens.

God I miss all those guys like hell. In my mind they were all my comrades. The screen name I bare is that of my buddy from star wars galaxies. Ifepy the trandoshain. I guess I'm honoring the guy in a certain way. It's incredible really, how many adventures we go on with people well never meet or see again.

 liquidjoshi wrote:
People can give you all sorts of things, new experiences and insights, thoughts and feelings; they can do things to inspire you and, most importantly, create things with you - feelings, thoughts, and so on. A place, no matter how beautiful or nostalgic, without people is merely an empty shell, a keep of memories. Whether they are good or bad is entirely dependant on the people that are or were there, including you.

Our experiences are different, no doubt. But for me, I'd always return to the people I miss than the place I miss.

Right on the money.

I'm going to make a divergent comment:

Home is where the fun is. Not just partying, which is the obvious definition of "fun", but where things are interesting.

For me that is everywhere that isn't familiar. Anywhere I haven't been. Anywhere that can surprise me, and teach me something.

Pardon me for quoting a rock band, buuuuuuut...

"Wherever I lay my head is home."

Shrug. I never really felt homesick, although sometimes I missed the conveniences of the location that I call home normally. More being annoyed with the places I go to having no air conditioning, for example (which thankfuly happens less and less these days) and my desktop computer being a hassle to move around.

 Melissia wrote:
Pardon me for quoting a rock band, buuuuuuut..."Wherever I lay my head is home."

...and forgive them for paraphrasing Marvin Gaye.

And many others before him.

 Melissia wrote:
And many others before him.

The common idiom is 'A rolling stone gathers no moss.' Marvin Gaye and the writers at Motown Records came up with the original line, 'Wherever I lay my hat, that's my home.'

No, they didn't.

They may have popularized it, but they didn't come up with it.

There's another idiom you should remember: "There's nothing new under the sun."

I can't find the reference, but I do think the Motown version is a rephrase of "Home is where you hang your hat", which it older. But yeah, Metallica's version looks to be based on Gaye's.

Anyway, on-topic, I do find that home has two important meanings.

One is your place of comfort and rest in the now; the place where you are surrounded by those people and things which are "yours"; which belong to you and to which you belong.

The other is what the OP talked about- the places and haunts of your youth. The landscapes and environments which constituted the world when you were young; the beauty and boundaries of which still make up the world in which you as a person were formed. When I came back to New Hampshire and drove through the towns and neighborhoods of my childhood I was struck by the same intense nostalgia and sense of place. But of course speaking to people there now largely broke the spell, as they were not part of the original picture. I do wonder if this sense of home is stronger for people whose home-place is some place wild and undeveloped. Each change made to that place breaks part of the connection and continuity. My childhood hometown has changed quite a bit, and parts of it are lost forever except in fading memories. But for other parts of it, I can just walk into the woods and there it is; practically identical to when I last stood there 25 years ago- save that everything looks smaller.

 Mannahnin wrote:

The other is what the OP talked about- the places and haunts of your youth. The landscapes and environments which constituted the world when you were young; the beauty and boundaries of which still make up the world in which you as a person were formed. When I came back to New Hampshire and drove through the towns and neighborhoods of my childhood I was struck by the same intense nostalgia and sense of place. But of course speaking to people there now largely broke the spell, as they were not part of the original picture. I do wonder if this sense of home is stronger for people whose home-place is some place wild and undeveloped. Each change made to that place breaks part of the connection and continuity. My childhood hometown has changed quite a bit, and parts of it are lost forever except in fading memories. But for other parts of it, I can just walk into the woods and there it is; practically identical to when I last stood there 25 years ago- save that everything looks smaller.

I think only a small minority of people would understand what I mean, it requires quite specific circumstances which your average suburbanite are unlikely to have.

Obviously I have people who are important to me but they are scattered all over the place, they are no longer part of 'home'. The concept of home for me has also fragmented with the result that I basically have 2; where I come from (the place not the people) and with my family (the people not the place).

You see my home town is Slough, more precisely Cippenham. Its where most of my family were born and half still live there. I have very few attachments to the place beyond family and always wanted to be away, even as a kid.

When it came to leaving for university, I had found my home in the city of Bath. The first time I visited the place I felt so comfortable and relaxed, the place blew my mind. I spent 4 years there till lack of money and lack of employment meant I could no longer afford to stay and ended up moving back to my parents in Slough.

This didn't feel like a homecoming, more like an extended business trip that you can't leave from. I wanted nothing more than to go back to Bath and stay there. So far I have had to just settle with visits till I start my new job there, even now I am on one such trip and I feel home. Come Wednesday when I have to go back, it will feel like another chore. For me home is definitely where the heart is, cheesy as it sounds. That place for me is Bath.

To me it is the place. Home for me is Northwest Michigan, where I went through highschool. I only lived there for 4 years of my life, but in the many travels around the world that I've had, it's the place I've most fallen in love with. As for people, most of my family has moved, or plans on moving from there, but I still plan on retiring to that area whether or not they are there.

each to their own. It can be either dependent on circumstances. For most it is likely a bit of both.

For someone who lives alone it logically must be the place.

For someone who lives as part of a nomadic tribe is must be the people.

 Orlanth wrote:
each to their own. It can be either dependent on circumstances. For most it is likely a bit of both.

For someone who lives alone it logically must be the place.

For someone who lives as part of a nomadic tribe is must be the people.

I relate to the latter more then the former, home was the other Marines and sailors I was stationed with no matter where I was and how bad things sucked at the time. So now that I'm out I'm away from home and really don't have any way to go back.

I think honestly though the latter condition is more important then the former, the people that make up your life should be more important then the location.

Don't be arrogant palindrome. THere's a difference between not understanding, and not agreeing.

 Melissia wrote:
Don't be arrogant palindrome. THere's a difference between not understanding, and not agreeing.

What? It may be best if you put me on ignore again.

I've lived most of my adult life overseas, the UK for a bit and like a decade plus in Japan. I don't miss Canuckistan at all. When I do go back, I haven't in 4 years, I always suffer from reverse culture shock. I'm incapable of losing my mind over a Horny Tim's Christmas doughnut, the town's newest Chinese and Canadian food restaurant, or Donny's new F1500 with the scrotum trailer hitch accessory. Hockey, my last atom-thin line of patriotism, is still good. Particularly WHL (AJHL is all right seeing as it is pretty much free) The weed always seems a lot better when I go back than the time before. But those two things, don't make me miss the place, maybe just more nostalgic for -35C winters in the past.

Japan is home now. I have no intention of leaving where I live now. It works for me. Japan is A number 1 ichi ban!

Where I lay my head is home. I've never had any particular connection to specific places, and people... well most people suck. I moved away from home to a place in the same city, then to a different province, then same province but so completely different than 'home' that it might as well have been on the moon, to a short stay home before moving to the land down under. Throughout all of that it was my few friends, and some good tunes that made me 'home'.
I head back to my home town every few years and am amazed by the changes... but they don't affect me beyond that. I miss certain aspects of home. The forests and the rain, shops being open after 6pm every day and late night shopping being midnight, not friggin' 8pm. I have to admit I miss some of the foods I grew up with, and Timmies coffee. And of course the smoko...But at the end of the day, if someone told me I'd never be able to return I'd be a bit annoyed, but there wouldn't be that loss of home.
Bah, ramble over

Palindrome wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Don't be arrogant palindrome. THere's a difference between not understanding, and not agreeing.

What? It may be best if you put me on ignore again.

Seriously, Melissia, I don't know what you thought was arrogant about what he wrote. He was talking about perspective; nothing about superiority.

I was referring to this:

Palindrome wrote:
I think only a small minority of people would understand what I mean, it requires quite specific circumstances which your average suburbanite are unlikely to have.

Many, many "suburbanites" have such experiences, moving about depending on the financial welfare of their parents or themselves, and even ignoring that, it doesn't actually take specific circumstances to understand what is meant.

In fact, it's quite easy to understand that home can be both the people and the place-- or just the place, or just the people, or none of the above-- it's not exactly a complex philosophical concept here.

A person's home can be just the place-- where they grew up, or sometimes just where they are most comfortable. I know a person, for example, who only really felt at home in their treehouse-- their sanctuary from the turmoil and drama filled home. They didn't associate home with people, because many of the people they grew up, including their parents, were unpleasant. By the time he started making friends, their little reclusive hideout was already established in their subconscious as "home". He bonded with the place, rather than the people.

Another person, however, moved around about six times before high school. Her home was basically wherever her family was, because she never really connected to a place-- never had a chance to. She bonded with the people, not the place, and they're what make her feel at home no matter where she is.

Meanwhile, for myself... what probably makes me feel most at home are my material things, especially my electronics, and particularly with the internet. Probably because I grew up on computers and video games I suppose. With my laptop and an internet connection, I can make just about anywhere feel at home. Even moreso with my desktop and its peripherals, although it's more difficult to move around obviously.

Neither the people nor the place, but rather the synchronicity of both factors.

Without the people, the place is just a geographical location.
Without the place, the people are just relatives and friends you could have met anywhere.

My family tended to move house every 7-8 years when I was growing up, so I didn't really set down roots in any one location, and still find it hard to call any one place "home".

At the moment, "home" is where all my crap is.

 Melissia wrote:
Many, many "suburbanites" have such experiences, moving about depending on the financial welfare of their parents or themselves, and even ignoring that, it doesn't actually take specific circumstances to understand what is meant.

Well done for misunderstanding my post and then having a little tantrum. I can't say that I am suprised.