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Alright, so I haven't played a game of Warhammer 40k in about ... 7 years, which coincidentally enough corresponds to the length of my marriage. Now that I'm free I'm getting back into the game that I enjoy. Please critique, comment, help as you see fit. So without further ado ... my first list in 7 years....
Rune Priest (120)
Terminator Armour
Storm Caller/Living Lightning
Wolf Gaurd x4 (217)
Terminator Armour x4
Chainfist x2
Drop Pod
Grey Hunter x10 (235)
Mark of the Wulfen
Wolf Standard
Power Weapon
Plasma Gun x2
Rhino
Grey Hunter x10 (230)
Mark of the Wulfen
Wolf Standard
Power Weapon
Melta Gun x2
Rhino
Long Fangs x6 (125)
Missile Launcher x2
Heavy Bolter x3
927 Total
I see a serious lack of scoring units. Should I split the Grey Hunter packs down to 5 to make 4x 5 Marine squads? Should I drop the rhinos due to the change in what you can do after disembarking? My sergeants were from 2nd edition and were modeled with the power fists ... with the drop to Initiative level 1, should I swap them out with two of my blood claws that have power weapons (one is a power axe which wouldn't fix the initiative problem) and use them as sergeants instead?
I have a pack of Blood Claws, another Rhino, I've got a Land Speeder, a Land Speeder Tempest (although I know how people feel about FW stuff in games sometimes), and a dread with Lascannon/Missile Launcher, a wolf lord with combi weapon, and 2 wolves all painted. To give you an idea of how long it's been since I've played, I have a Leman Russ Exterminator painted up in SW colors from when you could take them in 3rd edition. I'm in the process of converting it to my color scheme for the IG army i'm starting.
In various states of painted-ness I've got a few more Terminators, a Vindicator, 3 bikes, an attack bike, some scouts, Ragnar, Ulrik, and some long fangs.
So what help/advice can you guys offer?
EDIT ---- Further Further Further Refinements to the list after more discussion as seen below. I'm now left with another 73 Points. What to do with that?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 17:04:03
I can tell that you're used to playing 4th Edition Space Wolves with the old codex. My list looked about the same when I started back up after a 10 year hiatus. Here's some comments to help a wolf brother get back up to speed.
You have to have at least 5 wolf guard before you can have the assault cannon.
For 15 points, the plasma pistols kind of suck in 6th edition. They used to be great, but a pistol doesn't give you an extra attack with your power fist anymore. Also the power fist is over priced on the squad. Try something like these for your grey hunter squads.
Spoiler:
10 x Grey Hunters + Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, 2x Plasmaguns, Rhino (220)
10 x Grey Hunters + Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, 2xMeltaguns, Power Sword, Rhino (230)
Also...The predator is great for vanilla marines, but Space Wolves have Long Fangs - possibly the best heavy support choice in the game. Get some of those.
Venerable dreadnoughts have a big problem now. They die too easily. If you're not rocking Bjorn the Fellhanded, I would skip dreadnoughts completely. Get Long Fangs instead.
2500 pts
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
I second dropping the ven dread, as the new damage table makes venerable near worthless. A dred needs a pod anyways, unless you are going for a rifleman or long range gun. Either way the fangs will serve you better.
You might want to drop murderous hurricane for living lightning or jaws. Both have longer range and do far more damage now that dangerous terrain allows armor saves.
Your priest needs a ride unless you plan for the WG to escort him across the board.
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden
For 15 points, the plasma pistols kind of suck in 6th edition. They used to be great, but a pistol doesn't give you an extra attack with your power fist anymore. Also the power fist is over priced on the squad. Try something like these for your grey hunter squads.
[spoiler]
10 x Grey Hunters + Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, 2x Plasmaguns, Rhino (220)
10 x Grey Hunters + Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Standard, 2xMeltaguns, Power Sword, Rhino (230)
Also...The predator is great for vanilla marines, but Space Wolves have Long Fangs - possibly the best heavy support choice in the game. Get some of those.
Venerable dreadnoughts have a big problem now. They die too easily. If you're not rocking Bjorn the Fellhanded, I would skip dreadnoughts completely. Get Long Fangs instead.
When it comes to the LF unit, is it better to have all the same weapon or since you can split fire, take 2 different types?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
Dr. Serling wrote: I second dropping the ven dread, as the new damage table makes venerable near worthless. A dred needs a pod anyways, unless you are going for a rifleman or long range gun. Either way the fangs will serve you better.
Plan on dropping it and replacing with a few more WG and a LF unit.
Spoiler:
Dr. Serling wrote: You might want to drop murderous hurricane for living lightning or jaws. Both have longer range and do far more damage now that dangerous terrain allows armor saves.
I'll make the switch to living lightning.
Spoiler:
Dr. Serling wrote: Your priest needs a ride unless you plan for the WG to escort him across the board.
No LR so I don't have a transport for him. My plan was to keep him with the WG.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/21 20:36:48
I'm also toying with the idea of taking 5 heavy bolters, but I haven't tried it yet. As a matter of principle, I always take a full squad of 6 long fangs and I never ever take multi-meltas.
Try to build each squad of long fangs for a particular purpose. Option 1 is good for busting infantry and light armor. Option 2 is good for killiing tanks. It gets better with more lascannons. Options 3 and 4 kill infantry. Don't try to make your LF's do both rolls at the same time. For example, these units...
Spoiler:
6 Long Fangs + 3 Las cannons, 2 Plasmacannons
6 Long Fangs + 3 Missile Launchers, 2 Multimeltas
don't really work because either you'll have to dilute your firepower to split targets, or the optimum range of the weapons don't overlap.
Missile launchers are easily the best deal for the points. Krak missiles are great for busting up space marines (S8 AP3 is instant kill for MEQ). Frag missiles are great agaist blobs of troops. However, ML's are also the most expensive devastator miniatures because you only get one in a box of devastators, you only get one in a box of tactical marines and you don't get any in a box of space wolves. That left me to buy the missile launcher bits on ebay for about $8 each - which is too much, but I really wanted them.
2500 pts
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
I made the adjustments to the list in the OP. I don't have 2 Plasma Cannons, so I went with 3 Heavy Bolters and 2 LasCannon to try and match the 4th configuration you mentioned.
Removing the Ven Dread and Predator, plus adding the Long Fang pack put me at 965 ... so I added a power weapon to each of the grey hunter squads and gave one of the wolf guard some melta bombs. Good use of the last 35 points, or is there something better I could do?
Kiwi461 wrote: I made the adjustments to the list in the OP. I don't have 2 Plasma Cannons, so I went with 3 Heavy Bolters and 2 LasCannon to try and match the 4th configuration you mentioned.
Removing the Ven Dread and Predator, plus adding the Long Fang pack put me at 965 ... so I added a power weapon to each of the grey hunter squads and gave one of the wolf guard some melta bombs. Good use of the last 35 points, or is there something better I could do?
Mate you have missed GKNUCKLE's point HBolters are for infantry and Lascannons are for tanks, they are different ranges and should not be put together. Space wolves were a popular army in 5th ed and long fangs ran in every good army! so alot of your opponents will know hoe good they are and will target them. First wound should always be the leader. This means no more split fire.
Of course you could run 3 HB and 2 ML against hoard list.
I suggest you try it out with a little bit of proxy until you find what you like. As some of these kit outs cost alot of money to set up. buying the bits separately.
The list looks pretty solid. I would possibly go for the full ML's LF's, maybe one lascannon to offset it just in case, but that is preference.
I will say though is that I am a little concerned over the Termies having to footslog while the troops are in rhinos. This would put the termies behind them unless you decide to deep strike the unit.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
I will say though is that I am a little concerned over the Termies having to footslog while the troops are in rhinos. This would put the termies behind them unless you decide to deep strike the unit.
Agreed. Put them in a drop pod.
2500 pts
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
Okay, with a bit more research, I see what you guys mean about the LFs. I think in my mind because of the increased str I always associated Plasmas and Meltas with tank busting, so a Plasma Cannon would be more of that. Looking back at all my books I see that Plasma is more MEQ busting.
I think I will try the 3 HB/2 ML combo and then experiment from there.
As for the drop pod, we'll start first with .. I don't have one. Also with a 10 man limit, and the Terminator Armour being 'bulky' and counting as 2, I'd have to drop a WG, which means I'd be dropping the Assault Cannon.
I remember in the previous codex it said that Space Wolves couldn't deep strike because of their mistrust of technology (it's not how Russ fought), the same reason you couldn't take jump pack marines. This new codex there is no rule that says, SW can't DS. The only thing I found was in the last paragraph about Terminator Armour on pg. 61 [NB: Though the Terminators of other Space Marines Chapters often teleport straight into battle, Space Wolves have a deep mistrust of such arcane tactics and prefer to fight with their feet on solid ground, just as Russ intended.] So with nothing saying I can't, and being that I don't have a DP, can I just DS them? Because I agree they wouldn't be much use if they had to lumber after the GHs in Rhinos.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, so I'm enjoying the discussion and I've made further refinements to the list in the OP.
Swapping the lascannons for missile launchers gives me an additional 35 points to use.
I tried to plug and play a few things in, but nothing that seemed great until the last one I tried (Whatever you lose is always in the last place you look):
Drop the GH squads to 9 and the Melta bombs from the WG. I can then add two more WG that would in power armour that would attach to the GH squads. I could give each a power weapon, 1 gets a bolter the other gets a combi/melta (and be in the melta squad).
That would put me at 996.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 04:45:37
They can't DS, but they can take a Drop Pod. So I would definitely pick one up for the WG/Rune Priest. You will have issues with them footslogging as we stated.
The list looks better though, I have a personal preference for more LFs before I deck out my WG, but that is preference.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
MadMaverick76 wrote: They can't DS, but they can take a Drop Pod. So I would definitely pick one up for the WG/Rune Priest. You will have issues with them footslogging as we stated.
Do you remember where in the Codex it says they can't? I couldn't find it, as mentioned before, the only thing I could find was the bit about not liking it, not that they couldn't.
Also, i've noticed that the SM Codex says a Drop Pod can take 12 (same with GW's store site) but the SW codex says 10. Is it 12 or 10? I saw nothing in the Errata, and no explanation in the Codex.
I'm going to try out the above list as is, with the additional WG soon, hopefully this coming monday or next at my FLGS and see how it goes.
As for the drop pod, we'll start first with .. I don't have one. Also with a 10 man limit, and the Terminator Armour being 'bulky' and counting as 2, I'd have to drop a WG, which means I'd be dropping the Assault Cannon.
Drop Pods are a pain to build too. Probably the most difficult GW model I've ever built. But...You wouldn't have to drop the wolf guard. Just put him in power armor.
I remember in the previous codex it said that Space Wolves couldn't deep strike because of their mistrust of technology (it's not how Russ fought), the same reason you couldn't take jump pack marines.
The old codex said that Space Wolves couldn't teleport. They could still deep strike with drop pods, but in those days the drop pod model didn't exist. So most SW players of that era (myself included) built their army around the "Rhino Rush" strategy.
So with nothing saying I can't, and being that I don't have a DP, can I just DS them? Because I agree they wouldn't be much use if they had to lumber after the GHs in Rhinos.
No. If you want to deep strike, you have to have Drop Pods. Besides...even if you could teleport, you wouldn't want to. Drop Pods never have mishaps and you get to deploy 6" away from the pod after you land. When you teleport, you can mishap and your entire squad will fit under a single large blast template. Why not just take the terminator armor away ? Then the WG can fit in the Rhino with the squad. Or...Just keep the WG as a separate unit of terminators.
2500 pts
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
I've started looking at drop pods on eBay in the hopes I can find one cheaper. Until then, I might try and proxy one in a game. I'd like to keep the Terminators in.
With that in mind ... I adjusted the list again (thanks for all the help by the way) I put the GH squads back to 10 and dropped the two extra WG. I dropped the WG with AC and added the drop pod. This puts me at 927. Dropping the Chain Fists would give me another 10 points (917). I could put in a lone wolf with 2 fenrisian wolves, but I feel like that would have the same problem as the footslogging RP/WG. It's not quite enough for an additional vehicle. Suggestions?
with the extra points, you could give the long fangs a razorback with twin linked lascannon.
2500 pts
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
Grugknuckle wrote:
No. If you want to deep strike, you have to have Drop Pods. Besides...even if you could teleport, you wouldn't want to. Drop Pods never have mishaps and you get to deploy 6" away from the pod after you land. When you teleport, you can mishap and your entire squad will fit under a single large blast template. Why not just take the terminator armor away ? Then the WG can fit in the Rhino with the squad. Or...Just keep the WG as a separate unit of terminators.
Technically not true, Drop Pods that scatter off the table roll against the Mishap Table, but easily remedied.
Grugknuckle wrote:with the extra points, you could give the long fangs a razorback with twin linked lascannon.
+1, or if you can scrounge enough points, another LFs would be good.
I did a quick check on Army Builder....I got the following:
Two LF squads would be able to engage 4 targets too, vice 3 with 1 LF and a Razorback ...
When I get back home i'll have to see how many LFs I actually have .....
While this is true, you generally don't want to split fire unless you really have to. Instead you want to focus your fire on a single unit until it's dead or combat ineffective. Then switch targets. "Split Fire" is one of those things that sounds nice, but usually turns out to be a bad idea.
2500 pts
Horst wrote:This is how trolling happens. A few cheeky posts are made. Then they get more insulting. Eventually, we revert to our primal animal state, hurling feces at each other while shreeking with glee.
2500 pts
Shine bright like Iyanden 
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded 
