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So with the new Chariot rules a warlord can be slain in CC while still inside a CCB since the enemies in CC can target him instead of the Chariot.

So how does EL work when mounted on a transport? Does it work at all? Where does he respawn if we makes the Ever-Living check? Can he respawn inside the CCB and keep on fighting?

You place the EL token where the model was removed from play. That should be your answer. If the chariot is wrecked/destroyed then the token is still in the same place, but you can place your character anywhere within 3" of the token anyway.

I think he means if the opponent chooses to attack the Overlord rather than the chariot.

Overlord dies. Rolls his everliving roll. Chariot is still alive.
Does he get back up in the chariot? Next to the chariot?

This came up at a recent tourney I attended, I was the Necron player. I actually stopped the game on my account to clarify as it had never occured before.
The tourney organiser (also a GW employee incidentally) didn't know. We all checked the book, doesn't say it anywhere.
We decided that for the tournament, we'd say he was allowed to reanimate mounted on the chariot.
The reasoning behind this is the rule says 'if he was in a unit at the time of dying, he will reanimate and rejoin the unit'. We figured we would count the chariot as being in a unit with him for the purpose of deciding an answer. My opponent didn't mind at all.

JBrehaut wrote:
I think he means if the opponent chooses to attack the Overlord rather than the chariot.

Overlord dies. Rolls his everliving roll. Chariot is still alive.
Does he get back up in the chariot? Next to the chariot?

This came up at a recent tourney I attended, I was the Necron player. I actually stopped the game on my account to clarify as it had never occured before.
The tourney organiser (also a GW employee incidentally) didn't know. We all checked the book, doesn't say it anywhere.
We decided that for the tournament, we'd say he was allowed to reanimate mounted on the chariot.
The reasoning behind this is the rule says 'if he was in a unit at the time of dying, he will reanimate and rejoin the unit'. We figured we would count the chariot as being in a unit with him for the purpose of deciding an answer. My opponent didn't mind at all.

I know exactly what he meant, and the rules are very clear on where to place the EL token. If he dies and the chariot is still around at the end of the assault phase, he rolls and passes EL, he comes back in the chariot or within 3" of it.

 Kevin949 wrote:

JBrehaut wrote:
I think he means if the opponent chooses to attack the Overlord rather than the chariot.

Overlord dies. Rolls his everliving roll. Chariot is still alive.
Does he get back up in the chariot? Next to the chariot?

This came up at a recent tourney I attended, I was the Necron player. I actually stopped the game on my account to clarify as it had never occured before.
The tourney organiser (also a GW employee incidentally) didn't know. We all checked the book, doesn't say it anywhere.
We decided that for the tournament, we'd say he was allowed to reanimate mounted on the chariot.
The reasoning behind this is the rule says 'if he was in a unit at the time of dying, he will reanimate and rejoin the unit'. We figured we would count the chariot as being in a unit with him for the purpose of deciding an answer. My opponent didn't mind at all.

I know exactly what he meant, and the rules are very clear on where to place the EL token. If he dies and the chariot is still around at the end of the assault phase, he rolls and passes EL, he comes back in the chariot or within 3" of it.

Ah, sorry, I thought when you mentioned the chariot being wrecked/destroyed, you were reading it as if the opponent had chosen to target the vehicle, I see what you meant now.
Agreed by all accounts.

JBrehaut wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

JBrehaut wrote:
I think he means if the opponent chooses to attack the Overlord rather than the chariot.

Overlord dies. Rolls his everliving roll. Chariot is still alive.
Does he get back up in the chariot? Next to the chariot?

This came up at a recent tourney I attended, I was the Necron player. I actually stopped the game on my account to clarify as it had never occured before.
The tourney organiser (also a GW employee incidentally) didn't know. We all checked the book, doesn't say it anywhere.
We decided that for the tournament, we'd say he was allowed to reanimate mounted on the chariot.
The reasoning behind this is the rule says 'if he was in a unit at the time of dying, he will reanimate and rejoin the unit'. We figured we would count the chariot as being in a unit with him for the purpose of deciding an answer. My opponent didn't mind at all.

I know exactly what he meant, and the rules are very clear on where to place the EL token. If he dies and the chariot is still around at the end of the assault phase, he rolls and passes EL, he comes back in the chariot or within 3" of it.

Ah, sorry, I thought when you mentioned the chariot being wrecked/destroyed, you were reading it as if the opponent had chosen to target the vehicle, I see what you meant now.
Agreed by all accounts.

This actually happened to me in a tournament as well and we did resolved it much in the same way, That I would be able to reanimate embarked still.

But the rules themselves are not very clear. If you use the argument that that he "rejoins the unit" then should not be able to reanimate outside the CCB unless it is destroyed. As he must be placed with his current unit according to EL.

Would be nice to get it clarified in an official FAQ

On a similar note - if the Chariot is destroyed in CC and the Overlord is forced to disembark, is he just continue the combat on foot?

The Chariot itself cannot be locked, so not sure of how this would work.

 Praxiss wrote:
On a similar note - if the Chariot is destroyed in CC and the Overlord is forced to disembark, is he just continue the combat on foot?
The Chariot itself cannot be locked, so not sure of how this would work.

Neither Chariot nor its passenger are never locked in combat. Overlord would not continue combat, because he ceases to be in BtB when Chariot is destroyed and when he disembarks, he must disembark at last 1" away from any enemy models.
Overlord is also prohibited from charging during following Necron turn because of how Assault Vehicle USR is worded.
(Strict RAW: this only applies if CBC is wrecked, though it's pretty obvious that RAI it should apply after destroyed result too, and there are good arguments why it does anyway)

Right, so if the Chariot is charged by a unit and they kill the barge, that's combat over since the lord is no longer in BtB.

He is then free to fall back next turn or even charge in if it's your turn and you're feeling silly/lucky.

Luide wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
On a similar note - if the Chariot is destroyed in CC and the Overlord is forced to disembark, is he just continue the combat on foot?
The Chariot itself cannot be locked, so not sure of how this would work.

Neither Chariot nor its passenger are never locked in combat. Overlord would not continue combat, because he ceases to be in BtB when Chariot is destroyed and when he disembarks, he must disembark at last 1" away from any enemy models.
Overlord is also prohibited from charging during following Necron turn because of how Assault Vehicle USR is worded.
(Strict RAW: this only applies if CBC is wrecked, though it's pretty obvious that RAI it should apply after destroyed result too, and there are good arguments why it does anyway)

It applies after destroyed as well. I can't remember where it is in the book at the moment but there is a snippet somewhere saying passengers disembark from a destroyed vehicle the same as from a wrecked one.

Pg 80 alludes to it, last paragraph just above "flyers". That's all I can find for now, I think there was more though, somewhere. I know the summaries in the back of the book also state they "disembark" from destroyed. Honestly, the differentiation needs to stop, passengers disembark whether wrecked or destroyed.

OK....so lets set an example.

Necron vs BA

BA Turn---

BA unit charges CCB and wreck/destroy the chariot before the lord hits
- Lord takes the required S3/4 hits ....blah blah.
- lord disembarks 1" from enemy models and is no longer in combat
--combat ends as the units onvolved are no longer in BtB.

NECRON Turn---

Can the Lord charge? I suppose if Necron went first int he game then thsi woudl be the start of a new game turn, so in tyhat case he coudl then charge the unit, correct?

 Praxiss wrote:
OK....so lets set an example.

Necron vs BA

BA Turn---

BA unit charges CCB and wreck/destroy the chariot before the lord hits
- Lord takes the required S3/4 hits ....blah blah.
- lord disembarks 1" from enemy models and is no longer in combat
--combat ends as the units onvolved are no longer in BtB.

NECRON Turn---

Can the Lord charge? I suppose if Necron went first int he game then thsi woudl be the start of a new game turn, so in tyhat case he coudl then charge the unit, correct?

Yes, he can. Even still that doesn't matter because he would have been able to regardless since it's the following turn. Now if the chariot was wrecked or destroyer during the necron movement phase, that is a better example but the answer is still the same. Yes, he can.

If the chariot is destroyed, the Lord would be locked in the combat.

The Lord is only stopped from being locked "whilst embarked", so once the chariot is destroyed, the Lord is considered locked in combat.


As for assaulting, the CCB is open-topped, so assaulting is not an issue.

coredump wrote:

If the chariot is destroyed, the Lord would be locked in the combat.

The Lord is only stopped from being locked "whilst embarked", so once the chariot is destroyed, the Lord is considered locked in combat.


As for assaulting, the CCB is open-topped, so assaulting is not an issue.

How would he go from not locked to locked though? The assaulting unit never declared assault against the lord. They didn't charge the lord. And following the standard rules he would simple disembark within the rules of doing so for wrecked/destroyed and if unable to be placed would be removed as a casualty (Possible EL token?).

The brb says that chariot riders are treated as being in b2b with enemy models in assault. which I'm not sure if it means he's locked in combat (doesn't specify there), but it does mean he still gets attacked in the assault phase if they destroyed the CCB since all attacks are done simultaneously.

Paitryn wrote:
The brb says that chariot riders are treated as being in b2b with enemy models in assault. which I'm not sure if it means he's locked in combat (doesn't specify there), but it does mean he still gets attacked in the assault phase if they destroyed the CCB since all attacks are done simultaneously.

Treated as is not the same as being, however. It also states that the chariot (and by extension, it's rider) are never locked in close combat.

And just to clarify, it only counts the models in b2b with the chariot as being in b2b with the lord, which I believe is clarified to mean they are the only ones that can attack the rider and vice versa. These differences in the assault phase for the chariot are enough to signify it does not follow the rules for assault for standard units at all.

He is engaged, and is in base contact. He meets all of the criteria for being locked in combat. The only reason the Lord is not locked, is because he is embarked.... once he is not embarked, that waiver no longer applies.

Being engaged does not require 'declaring an assault' it only requires base contact, being locked only requires being involved in the combat.

coredump wrote:
He is engaged, and is in base contact. He meets all of the criteria for being locked in combat. The only reason the Lord is not locked, is because he is embarked.... once he is not embarked, that waiver no longer applies.

Being engaged does not require 'declaring an assault' it only requires base contact, being locked only requires being involved in the combat.

No, he's not engaged, read the book. It says the chariot and rider are not engaged. You can not go from unengaged to engaged in the middle of a fight, only at the beginning of an assault.

And at what point in time are you allowed to get within 1" of an enemy?

Yes, being locked requires you to be involved in the combat, under normal circumstances. This is not a normal circumstance and you cannot follow the standard infantry rules for assault with a chariot, in any regard.

coredump wrote:
He is engaged, and is in base contact. He meets all of the criteria for being locked in combat. The only reason the Lord is not locked, is because he is embarked.... once he is not embarked, that waiver no longer applies.

Being engaged does not require 'declaring an assault' it only requires base contact, being locked only requires being involved in the combat.

Neither the chariot nor its rider are ever locker in combat.
Chariots rider stops being in BTB the moment Chariot is destroyed, because Chariot special rules stop applying at that moment. Note that this happens before Chariots passenger disembark.
Timed version:
1) Chariot is alive. Passenger is considered BTB with models that are BTB with Chariot.
2) Chariot gets destroyed. Passenger is no longer considered BTB with models that were BTB with the Chariot
3) Passenger Disembarks, following normal disembark rules for wrecked vehicles or for destroyed vehicles, whichever is the case. This includes Passenger not being able to be placed within 1" of a enemy model.

@Kevin, Praxiss:

Praxiss wrote: Can the Lord charge? I suppose if Necron went first int he game then thsi woudl be the start of a new game turn, so in tyhat case he coudl then charge the unit, correct?

Lord cannot charge. Assault Vehicle only works if your vehicle gets destroyed in same player turn you're declaring the charge. Different game turns do not matter at all.
So normal rules apply, and these are "After disembarking, models can shoot ...[snip irrelevant] but cannot declare charge in their subsequent Assault Phase" (BYB, pg 79, emphasis mine)

That rule is for non-assault vehicle disembarking though, if I'm not mistaken.

 Kevin949 wrote:
That rule is for non-assault vehicle disembarking though, if I'm not mistaken.

correct. assault vehicles allow passengers to assault after disembarking even if the vehicle is destroyed that turn. I think even is an all encompassing term to mean they can always assault after disembarking.

Paitryn wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
That rule is for non-assault vehicle disembarking though, if I'm not mistaken.

correct. assault vehicles allow passengers to assault after disembarking even if the vehicle is destroyed that turn. I think even is an all encompassing term to mean they can always assault after disembarking.

No they can't. RAW Assault Vehicle only works if you charge on the same player turn you disembark.
"Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so, even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed." BYB, page 33. Emphasis mine.

So then they can charge during your assault phase if you wrecked my vehicle?

Only if you could normally assault on my turn.

Happyjew wrote:
Only if you could normally assault on my turn.

Well, what I was getting at is that since Luide is trying to follow the exact word of the rules, the one he posted alludes to allowing a unit to assault the turn it disembarks (in this case, the opponents turn) (and as we all know, turn=player turn). I'm making a point that it is not in fact the case and since the turn the unit disembarked has passed they are allowed to assault as normal on their turn from wrecked/destroyed open topped transports.

Problem being is that you can't attack "normally" - the wrecked/destroyed rules say in their subsequent attack phase, they can't charge. Assault vehicles overrides that restriction, but only during the current player turn.

Luide wrote:

Paitryn wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
That rule is for non-assault vehicle disembarking though, if I'm not mistaken.

correct. assault vehicles allow passengers to assault after disembarking even if the vehicle is destroyed that turn. I think even is an all encompassing term to mean they can always assault after disembarking.

No they can't. RAW Assault Vehicle only works if you charge on the same player turn you disembark.
"Passengers disembarking from Access Points on a vehicle with this special rule can charge on the turn they do so, even on a turn that the vehicle was destroyed." BYB, page 33. Emphasis mine.

This getting pretty distorted me thinks.

p79 Disembarkation Restrictions give restrictions for a normal Disembark move which takes place in the players movement phase. The player cant charge in the subsequent assault phase and is then referring to the players own in this very same turn. This does not affect future turns by either player. Therefore charging in the players next turn is fine.

p79 Emergency Disembarkation overrides this to state that the unit cannot perform any voluntary actions for the rest of the turn. It still does not affect the players future turns. This can happen, and most often will in the enemies turn but the next turn of the disembarking unit will be unaffected still.

p33. Assault Vehicle is allows the the disembarking passengers to charge on the turn they disembark even if vehicle is destroyed in the turn. This has now removed the charge restriction from the rule on p79. Which only applies to a regular disembark in the player own turn any why do the 'subsequent assault phase' bit is irrelevant anyway.

Bottom line. You can assault in any following turn regardless of how you disembark. You can only assault with a unit in the turn they disembark if it is their turn and the vehicle the disembark from is an Assault Vehicle.

There is no lingering side effect unless you actually get pinned when the vehicle explodes which is something else entirely.

Happy days

I don't know if you've missed it or are being deliberately evasive. Reread pg. 79. Here is the actual quote:

"After disembarking, models . . . cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase." (emphasis added)

It does specifically NOT refer to the player's own turn. It refers to the models subsequent Assault phase. If you get blown up on the opponent's turn, that models subsequent Assault phase is not the one coming up.

Normally a unit cannot charge in their next assault phase after disembarking from a vehicle (regardless of turn the unit disembarks).
A vehicle with the "Assault Vehicle" rule allows a unit to charge in the Turn they disembark (assuming they can charge normally).
This means that if a unit is forced to disembark in their turn they can assault as normal. However, if they are forced to disembark in the opposing player turn, you are able to assault in the opposing player turn (assuming you could normally charge), however, the restriction on charging in your subsequent Assault phase is still in place.

Is this what GW meant? Who knows, but it is how they wrote the rule.

p33 clearly expresses that under any circumstance, they may assault on the turn they disembark, even if it explodes.

Even is the word people keep looking over when trying to say they cannot assault. So they are allowed to assault.

while RAW may be questionable, I haven't found a TO that disagrees with what I think reguarding it, so I'm ok if people on Dakka do not.