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I am a little confused about how charging and disembarking works when the transport is destroyed.

I know that you cannot charge after disembarking (except in the case of Assault vehicles). So Turn 1 - move Rhino, Turn 2 - disembark and shoot, Turn 3 - charge
. Got it.


what if the Rhino is wrecked or destroyed in Turn 1?


Heres an example where this happened, I was playing necrons and my friend was playing BA. Thsi was actually a tactic he worked out and it worked amazingly well and won him the game pretty much.

BAs get first Turn.

BA Turn1
Move and Flat out Rhinos so they are about 8" from my front lines.

Necron Turn 1
Gauss-slap Rhinos into dust - BA units have to disembark

BA Turn 2
Disembarked BA units, being a mere 8" from my lines - get a full on Turn 2 charge and proceed to wipe me off the table (resulting in my first loss since the 'dex came out)



I am pretty sure this is legit, i just wanted to be sure for next time.


Also - any suggestions on how to counter this with a shooty list would be more than welcome!

Not trying to offend but might I suggest spell checking your posts in the future, some of that was quite difficult to read.

That being said, no your opponent cannot use this tactic, the rules for Disembarking state "After disembarking, models ... cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault Phase" (emphasis mine)

The model's subsequent assault phase in your example, is Blood Angels turn 2, meaning they cannot assault until after that turn.

 Drunkspleen wrote:
Not trying to offend but might I suggest spell checking your posts in the future, some of that was quite difficult to read.

That being said, no your opponent cannot use this tactic, the rules for Disembarking state "After disembarking, models ... cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault Phase" (emphasis mine)

The model's subsequent assault phase in your example, is Blood Angels turn 2, meaning they cannot assault until after that turn.

Spleen is correct.

But.....

I would just like to add some clarification:

Wrecked via hull point loss = Cannot Charge in their next assault phase.

Vehicle explodes via Penetrating damage roll of 6+(Regardless of wrecked status prior to roll) = Can charge in their next assault phase.

These distinctions are due to explodes still/once again "placing" the unit in the crater and the unit not "Disembarking".

The unit still does not disembark when the penetrating hit that causes the explosion also removes the last hull point because you are very specifically told to still roll for damage in case it explodes and you must follow the explodes result( otherwise the passengers will not take any hits and the vehicle would not be replaced with the crater/area terrain).

Kommissar Kel wrote:Vehicle explodes via Penetrating damage roll of 6+(Regardless of wrecked status prior to roll) = Can charge in their next assault phase.
These distinctions are due to explodes still/once again "placing" the unit in the crater and the unit not "Disembarking".

I used to think that this was clear-cut RAW, until someone showed me that rules on page 80 end of the chapter "Effects of damage on passengers" equate both results to for disembarking:
"However, if a Transport is destroyed by a shooting attack,any unit that shot it that turn can, if allowed,charge the now disembarked passengers." (Emphasis mine)
So basically, even though the passengers are 'placed' in case of explodes result, they're still considered to have also disembarked.

You could argue that bit both ways.

Explodes does not follow any of the disembarking procedures, and that rule does not address the manner of destruction.

Since it specifically mentions disembarked units, then it only effects wrecked vehicles.



Edit since my toddler just had to hit submit while I was typing:

-Or-

we could just go with "Now Disembarked" to mean "No longer embarked" or "formerly Embarked"

It is the disembarking rules(distance from access points, the whole set of rules therein) that deny assault, not a "Disembarked" status.

Sorry about the poor typing, i was trying to do it quickly and keep under the radar at work.

Right. So my example SHOULD go:

BAs get first Turn.

BA Turn1
Move and Flat out Rhinos so they are about 8" from my front lines.

Necron Turn 1
Gauss-slap Rhinos into dust - BA units have to disembark

BA Turn 2
Disembarked BA squad can move into cover and shoot.

necron Turn 2
more shooting to try and kill BA

BA Turn 3
having disembarked in their last turn, they can now charge

BA turn 3 can Charge.

In BA turn 2, the disembarked BA would have their next assault phase.

Dammit, i got screwed!

to be fair though, the way the game i went i still woudl have lost anyway.

he did finally latch onto the idea of mutli charging one unit of warriors with 2 of BA to minimise overwatch loses - that hurt (i had to overwatch some assault marines so when the vanguard charged in they were at full strength).

the only counter i can thik of is a counter-charge unit....so Wraiths i suppose.

What is the consensus when the vehicle is an assault vehicle, such as a Dark Eldar (open-topped) Raider? Do the Warriors/Wyches in the Raider get to assault next turn if their Raider is wrecked?

I would think they would be able to charge. Even if they are rules to have "disembarked", the fact that it is/was an assault vehicle measn they can.

 Praxiss wrote:
I would think they would be able to charge. Even if they are rules to have "disembarked", the fact that it is/was an assault vehicle measn they can.

They can in the (player) turn they disembark - but you can't assault in your opponents turn.
On their turn, they're now restricted by the "can't assault in their next assault phase" clause of disembarking.

I would want to say "yes they can charge", being that I play DE and all... But...

Fairness, common sense, etc wise, I'd say you can't charge, wrecking your transport shouldn't mean you get "free disembark" on your enemy's turn, that'd make no sense, so it's actually more advantageous to get your vehicle wrecked than to keep it alive? Beside, the rule wouldn't work if they can assault the very next turn, vehicles are usually wrecked during your enemy's shooting phase, so you'd always get your assault then? Now that's just silly...

Though if allowed, I'd still love to be able to assault after being wrecked...

Baronyu wrote:
I would want to say "yes they can charge", being that I play DE and all... But...

Fairness, common sense, etc wise, I'd say you can't charge, wrecking your transport shouldn't mean you get "free disembark" on your enemy's turn, that'd make no sense, so it's actually more advantageous to get your vehicle wrecked than to keep it alive? Beside, the rule wouldn't work if they can assault the very next turn, vehicles are usually wrecked during your enemy's shooting phase, so you'd always get your assault then? Now that's just silly...

Though if allowed, I'd still love to be able to assault after being wrecked...

actually if the vehicle is destroyed you can assault the turn they disembark, however you cannot in the subsequent assault phase. assault vehicles will most likely be getting a FAQ, as its pretty clear the intention was that you could assault after its wrecked or explodes, but the disembarking rules stunted it RAW wise.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
You could argue that bit both ways.

Explodes does not follow any of the disembarking procedures, and that rule does not address the manner of destruction.

Since it specifically mentions disembarked units, then it only effects wrecked vehicles.



Edit since my toddler just had to hit submit while I was typing:

-Or-

we could just go with "Now Disembarked" to mean "No longer embarked" or "formerly Embarked"

It is the disembarking rules(distance from access points, the whole set of rules therein) that deny assault, not a "Disembarked" status.

I would be careful with statements like that, it could lead to misinterpreting many other things in the rule book. We all know full well how that statement should read in conjunction with context of similar statements throughout the book and the summary at the end stating how to handle destroyed results and passengers.

The chart on pg 426 also says that passengers disembark after explodes. Of course this creates a lot of problems because the pg 426 chart contradicts a lot, but yeah.

Okay, lets clear this up with some simple logic. the game has been encouraging the Forge a Narrative method in this edition and i encourage everyone here spouting nonsense to think about it for a moment. You are a 8 foot tall super human badass with the best technology man-kind can offer you. Unlike your Ork and Dark eldar enemies who sacrifice durability for speed or carrying capacity you are a Marine, your vehicles are tough sealed enviorments which are able to carry 10 people (so it needs to be a big tank right? Okay now it has complicated technology which can self repair it's treds and engines... as well as 2 pilots a gunner, a pilot and an ammo feeding belt. Again drawing a comparison to orks and dark eldar which normally may use 1 bolted on weapon and a driver more often than not it's depicted as our passengers are firing the weaponry for the driver as he tries to get into position for them.

BUT SUDDENLY WHAM! A Necron Annihlation barge crashes into all of these vehicles

The Orcs suffer from an exploding engine but with the open road all around them most quickly find ways to throw themselves off with cuts, bruises or broken bones (minor stuff to greenskins)

The Dark eldar with their heightened reactions are able to nimbly leap from their vechiles breaking the minor falls with some acrobatics tho a few were not able to react fast enough and go down with the exploding ship.

But then we come to the space marine... that pressurized enviroment explodes lighting the ammo stores, the sealed doors take a moment to open before the roof caves in and the marines are buried in ceramite plating and explosions, a grizzly death to most, but you are space marines casting aside the rubble of your tank you Sergent Calls out for a head count and immediate regrouping those who fail to report in are not assumed dead but rather pinned and requiring assistance to extract their brother from the debris. After a few moments of searching suddenly the enemy greats you with more gunfire and you are unable to respond fast enough your tactics tell you it is best to hold down the fort, sure up your numbers and make a call in the next few moments... but not yet you need to fix damage to your armors and give the commands to your dispersed unit.

Now doesn't that just make sense? Instead everyone arguing for the assualt so quickly after a non-open topped or assualt vehicle explosion has taken place are trying to tell me that armored coffin which is disformed from a weapon strong enough to cut through it's plates and explode just happens to witness 10 marines already sprinting out of the fire chainswords and commands ready screaming "FOR THE EMPEROR!" as though it were not only expected but also prepared for .... like everyone was just huddled at the right side door waiting for the explosion to exit the vehicle full blown sprint?

Come on you are looking for exceptions. if you see an entry that might make more sense than another follow the logical one as opposed to the other.

My answer? If it's not oppen-topped or and Assualt vehicle it costly to not disembark early because you are suppose to be perceived as wasting time no matter if it's just simply hulled or explodes it doesn't matter you shouldn't be aggressively leaving the vehicle in such a fashion in my eyes you should be following the rules which make the most sense.