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Hey dakka, I need your opinion.

I play paintball and I am always on the look out for a good deal. I recently bought a carbon fibre air tank from eBay claimed as new, unused and no damage. 'Brilliant!' I thought because I would never buy a second hand one considering what could happen.

I received it yesterday and I am............ god damn irate if I must be blunt. It has two quite deep chips in the carbon fibre wrapping, the carbon fibre wrapping is warping and it rattles. Essentially the tank is failing massively so I sent him this message on eBay:

Good Morning,

I received the tank yesterday and it is absolutely nothing like what you have described it as, sorry if that sounds rude but I am a not very happy to be honest.

It has two, what I can only describe as holes in it (at least large chips) and the carbon fibre is warping suggesting something is giving in the tank. It rattles suggesting something inside has gone and there is wear on it so that means it has been used.

While that annoys me, my main concern is you have potentially sold me an item that could have caused me serious, serious harm to myself, my family or indeed my friends! I do know what can happen when a tank goes off, I have had it explained in graphic detail.

I am requesting an immediate refund. If this is not met within the next 48 hours I will be involving eBay and paypal as the seriousness of this demands it and I am not having that tank near my home any longer than I have to.

I am sorry if I come across blunt and angry but I'm in utter disbelief!

Scotti

Now the reason I am asking is because he has 'no returns'. But in this case, if you are not familiar with high pressure air systems he has sold me 'a small bomb' in truth. Had I not have people who know what they are looking at around me it could just fizzle a bit and we would dispose of it safely (yay!)................. or it could have blown up and injured or even have killed me or more importantly a friend or relative!! It isn't even in the house any more, it's wrapped in a towel in a bag in the greenhouse!

Surely I am right in asking for my money back in this situation? And also have I handled the situation well enough? I am very angry so I tried to tone it down to a diplomatic level.

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I checked about and it seemed to fit here-ish (it is a war game )

Cheers all

I think your message hit just the right tone. I have not had such a bad experience buying things off of Ebay, but then again, all I've ever bought from them is 40K miniatures and bitz. I hope you get your money back and manage to dispose of that thing safely.

Selling unsafe goods is one for Trading Standards.
Look them up on your local council's website.
If the seller is in the same country as you, there's a fair chance they'll get fined for even attempting to sell it.

That is unless there's any possible way the damage could have been caused in transit.

Got a reply:


This tank is tested! It will not blow up! All carbon fibre tanks are this shape. And it's never been used as the rattling is the valve (it rattles when there is no air behind it) ok this tank has been about since 2008 but that's how I advertised it. If you wanted a brand new 2012 tank then you should have gone to a paintball shop and spent £150

He also said I should just get it tested but this also costs money as explained below. So I sent a message in return:

Carbon fibre tanks do not come with chips out of the side of it, they do not come out of shape either. They are smooth. YOU advertised the tank as new, this is from your item page: New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging. And it is damaged, definitely! Used it maybe debatable but there is significant wear along some edges would say that it is. I would not be stupid enough to buy something so dangerous unless it was nothing less than perfect and new. I never said I wanted a 2012 tank, I took what the date into account, if the tank had been in great condition and pretty much untouched I would have been perfectly happy as it would have lasted me another 5 years for about half the price of a tank, fair deal.

So some of what you have claimed is true, that I will admit, but the most important bit isn't. Damage. A test will cost just under another £20 something I should not have to do with the description you posted. When it came to march fine but I am should not have to test it now.

If this is not resolved soon I will involve ebay, sorry but this is not what I paid for.

Scotti

I hope I am managing to contain myself because I am getting a bit like this ----> I can't believe some people


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Selling unsafe goods is one for Trading Standards.
Look them up on your local council's website.
If the seller is in the same country as you, there's a fair chance they'll get fined for even attempting to sell it.

That is unless there's any possible way the damage could have been caused in transit.

The chips would require a lot of force to make and it was well enough packaged to prevent anything like this happening. What is clever is the chips are disguised very well in the actual advertised photo but are in the same place as the tank I have now. They just look like the pattern in the carbon fibre and I think one is in the shine.

I may look up TS if eBay does nothing.

I will post pictures later to show the problems as I can't now.

Thought this might be useful:

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Sold-as-seen-as-is-no-returns?ugid=10000000002394120

Essentially you have been sold faulty, or damaged goods which means you are entitled to either a full refund or a replacement. In this case i would suggest a refund.

I would also not give him too long to respond, as if he stalls long enough you won't be able to action a paypal dispute.

If you are not happy with the purchase because you believe he misrepresented the goods this is an issue for trading standards, but in this case the goods are clearly damaged which means you have every right to pursue a refund. I would give him 48hrs at most and then contact ebay directly.

Get a screenshot of the ebay sale page, and any other proof of what was said.
Someone might need to know if it ever gets that far.

If the item is worn, it's hardly "brand-new, unused, unopened". Was it an "unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging"? If so, how was it tested?

I wouldn't wait for him to reply, it seems like the guy is trying to pull a fast one. Report it to eBay don't waste time.

I once had an item from someone that had a no returns policy arrive damaged, the threat of reporting them to eBay soon had him offering me a discount to keep it or I could return at my expense.

StraightSilver wrote:Thought this might be useful:

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Sold-as-seen-as-is-no-returns?ugid=10000000002394120

Essentially you have been sold faulty, or damaged goods which means you are entitled to either a full refund or a replacement. In this case i would suggest a refund.

I would also not give him too long to respond, as if he stalls long enough you won't be able to action a paypal dispute.

If you are not happy with the purchase because you believe he misrepresented the goods this is an issue for trading standards, but in this case the goods are clearly damaged which means you have every right to pursue a refund. I would give him 48hrs at most and then contact ebay directly.

Thank you that is an incredible article!

I requested a refund of him (see top post) and within 48 hours though to be honest if he keeps lying to me there will be a case open against him today.

Skinnereal wrote:Get a screenshot of the ebay sale page, and any other proof of what was said.
Someone might need to know if it ever gets that far.

If the item is worn, it's hardly "brand-new, unused, unopened". Was it an "unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging"? If so, how was it tested?

I have saved all my messages to my email which I will be printing out to keep along with photo's of the damage and the the pictures shown on ebay.

It needs a test date after 5 years of manufacture, a big rule and reg of the paintballing world. It will need testing in March, that I knew and was fine with but I have plenty of games between now and then and I shouldn't have to fork out £20 to get it through it's little MOT early because he can't tell the truth . It was open to get pictures of the tank, that is fine, I want to see closer and not through refracted light through plastic, so there there is no problem just the damage and the mishapen parts of it's hull as well as wear on the thread and the regulator.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Success! He has offered the return of my money as long as I return the tank. He did however say that he will refund it once he has received it. I have replied that I will return it but I want my money back first and that he doesn't have anything worry about cos I sure as hell ain't keeping it!!

Many thanks for your vote of confidence on this one dakka, it has helped calm me down

Don't wait. Start the process ASAP. If he was going to give you a refund, he would have already. And the process of making a claim doesn't prevent him from giving you a refund if that's what he decides to do.

Do not send it without getting the refund first, if he says he wont refund start the paypal/ebay dispute and when it gets to the stage of sending it back make sure you send it using a recorded delivery method

Not really on topic so to OT land we shall go.

I liked this part.

All carbon fibre tanks are this shape

All part of the process; stress testing is kicking it down the stairs and reversing a beat up Volkswagen over it.

Just dispute it on paypal if you used it to start off with.

MarkyMark wrote:Do not send it without getting the refund first, if he says he wont refund start the paypal/ebay dispute and when it gets to the stage of sending it back make sure you send it using a recorded delivery method

A top tip and one I shall remember! Thank you!

n0t_u wrote:I liked this part.

All carbon fibre tanks are this shape

All part of the process; stress testing is kicking it down the stairs and reversing a beat up Volkswagen over it.

Just dispute it on paypal if you used it to start off with.

I know right!! If I hadn't been so angry I would have probably wet myself laughing!

Again thank you for your support on this matter, it has made this morning a lot easier!

You should also ensure that he covers your return postage and fully refund all of you original payment inc p&p.

The distance selling regs still apply here and you have the right to get this back too.

If this thing is as dangerous as you are saying should you be sending it back?

Either from the perspective of something happening to it in transit, or the fact that this guy could sell it on again.

Did you buy it from a business seller or private seller? IF its business then the things mentioned about sale of goods act and LDS apply, if its private then it doesnt apply

 Medium of Death wrote:
If this thing is as dangerous as you are saying should you be sending it back?

Either from the perspective of something happening to it in transit, or the fact that this guy could sell it on again.

That's what I was thinking... You might be better off getting it disposed of correctly and simply having him refund you.

If you used Paypal you should be good, but as others have said, start the process right now.

 Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:

Now the reason I am asking is because he has 'no returns'.

I hate when people put that, it's completely meaningless. All of your usual rights apply, whatever the seller might claim.

File the claim. Take pictures. Send it back. Save receipts and emails and you'll get all your money back. It just might take some time.

If you paid trough paypal you can start a 'dispute' process over that for that guy selling you not what you asked for

 Medium of Death wrote:
If this thing is as dangerous as you are saying should you be sending it back?

Either from the perspective of something happening to it in transit, or the fact that this guy could sell it on again.

I am of the belief that it is infact empty hence why the regulator rattles, any pressure and it would not simply because it wouldn't be able to so returning it should be safe (as well as the reg reading zero pressure). However with air in it could be extremely dangerous due to the faults in the carbon fibre.

Good news all!! I have secured the refund he has now said he will refund me and therefore with eBays policy he must give me my money back within three days of it's receipt (I have all relevant messages saved). It will be recorded therefore I will know when I should have it, I will be taking a screenshot of the day it says it has arrived.

I will also be urging ebay to watch the resale of this item carefully and demand that all high pressure air systems come with some form of VERY RECENT PROOF to say it has been passed. I will suggest that this also must be advertised when on sale.

Thanks again for your replies

"No returns" holds no more validity in a legal transaction than does shouting "no take-backsies!".


You have contacted the seller, and have not been given a refund. Simply contact PayPal & Ebay and you will get your money back.

Ebay states itself that I must send the item off first unfortunately:

http://ocs.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?CustomerSupport

It says it elsewhere on another page I read too

What if the item is, as you say, dangerous? Is it hazardous to people carrying through the postal system? Maybe for a situation this unusual you should contact eBay more directly.

The tank is infact empty as it rattles. In this the seller was correct as if there was any pressure in it, it wouldn't be able to so no risk there Only if I used it would it be dangerous. I will be advising eBay to take down any relisting of it however

Nvm, misread.

Another thing sellers do is falsely claim they can't send a refund while a claim is open and if you just end your claim, they'll send your refund.

Don't end the claim until the refund is complete and this whole process is finished.

any pics of the chips?

 Brother-Captain Scotti wrote:
Hey dakka, I need your opinion.

I play paintball and I am always on the look out for a good deal. I recently bought a carbon fibre air tank from eBay claimed as new, unused and no damage. 'Brilliant!' I thought because I would never buy a second hand one considering what could happen.

I received it yesterday and I am............ god damn irate if I must be blunt. It has two quite deep chips in the carbon fibre wrapping, the carbon fibre wrapping is warping and it rattles. Essentially the tank is failing massively so I sent him this message on eBay:

Good Morning,

I received the tank yesterday and it is absolutely nothing like what you have described it as, sorry if that sounds rude but I am a not very happy to be honest.

It has two, what I can only describe as holes in it (at least large chips) and the carbon fibre is warping suggesting something is giving in the tank. It rattles suggesting something inside has gone and there is wear on it so that means it has been used.

While that annoys me, my main concern is you have potentially sold me an item that could have caused me serious, serious harm to myself, my family or indeed my friends! I do know what can happen when a tank goes off, I have had it explained in graphic detail.

I am requesting an immediate refund. If this is not met within the next 48 hours I will be involving eBay and paypal as the seriousness of this demands it and I am not having that tank near my home any longer than I have to.

I am sorry if I come across blunt and angry but I'm in utter disbelief!

Scotti

Now the reason I am asking is because he has 'no returns'. But in this case, if you are not familiar with high pressure air systems he has sold me 'a small bomb' in truth. Had I not have people who know what they are looking at around me it could just fizzle a bit and we would dispose of it safely (yay!)................. or it could have blown up and injured or even have killed me or more importantly a friend or relative!! It isn't even in the house any more, it's wrapped in a towel in a bag in the greenhouse!

Surely I am right in asking for my money back in this situation? And also have I handled the situation well enough? I am very angry so I tried to tone it down to a diplomatic level.

Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I checked about and it seemed to fit here-ish (it is a war game )

Cheers all

Well no refunds, but ask for a replacement. You still want a carbon fiber whats-it thingy right? You just don't want one that's busted up and ready to go off like a pipe bomb.