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I'm presently going to be making a cast in order to duplicate the terminator librarian shoulder pad. I was wondering if anyone out there has a favored method or product. So far, I've used greenstuff and sculpey to make the mold, and both have been successful in different ways. However, I'm always looking to improve, and I think that this target will set a higher bar, thanks to its detail and odd shape.

Thanks in advance. Looking forward to following links and reading debate.

Hot glue.
I'm not even joking.

I like this stuff for that kind of project:
http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Mini-or-Not-9001/dp/B005PODIVY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345956178&sr=8-2&keywords=instamold

If you are casting up a pad you sculpted yourself, there are plenty of tutorials and such to help you.

If you are casting a GW pad, that would be illegal, and discussion of such things are not allowed here.

Aerathan, maybe ilegal on your country, not in my lol

Use Instant mold sticks (the product Fenrir1997 Showed you), and green/grey stuff, make the mold with instant mold, and aply green stuff to it, removind after set...

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:
Aerathan, maybe ilegal on your country, not in my lol

Use Instant mold sticks (the product Fenrir1997 Showed you), and green/grey stuff, make the mold with instant mold, and aply green stuff to it, removind after set...

1. This site isn't run from your country. It is in US jurisdiction.
2. Regardless of where you are, the site owners have said numerous times that discussion of illegal recasting is not allowed.

Hm, ok... I agree them.

Only making it clear that "recast" is not totally ilegal, piracy is...

Seriously? It's technically illegal for me to make a cast of a model that I own and reproduce parts of it for personal use? I'm not about to set up an eBay store and sell terminator librarian shoulder pads...

I'm not sure if the illegality of personal use casting would hold up in court. I mean, selling me these kits to use, abuse, and manipulate as I chose is pretty much a license to do whatever I want with these things, if it's personal. And that's not counting the huge number of pro painter websites my lawyer could bring up in which companies manipulate models and then use them as advertising. If GW wanted that kind of control, I think that copyright ship has sailed, and sunk.

Anyway, until and unless the mods actually shut my thread down, I think I'd rather keep on hearing about methods I could use to copy that shoulder pad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Exclusive_rights

And this little tidbit from Fair Use:
the purpose and character of your use
the nature of the copyrighted work
what amount and proportion of the whole work was taken, and
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work

The purpose of these models is for gaming.
The nature of the work is sculpture
The amount being copied appears to be 100%
The effect of the recasting on the potential market or value is that it decreases sales and devalues legitimate copies of the work.

You own your COPY if the model, not the rights to produce more of it.

Whether or not you sell recasts has no bearing on them being illegal. They are pirated copies of a product. Piracy is illegal, recasting others IP without consent is illegal, keeping it in your basement or selling on ebay makes no difference.

Coping is not Piracy... They can be similar, but are not the same thing.

Piracy in the sense in which it is used today is exactly copying. It is making a free replica of something that you did not pay for and don't have rights to.

You think all those files on Piratebay are only passed on from person to person? No. Each person creates yet another copy of the content which they do not have rights to copy.

And recasting models is indeed piracy in this sense.

Can you buy the pads separately from gw? If not cast away, and those mood sticks are your best option. Easy to use, remake the mold if you don't like the first and the whole process is done in like 10 min. Press your gs into it and let it dry over night, make a mold with 5-10 so you can do many at once. When you have all you need, re heat the mold, destroy the evidence... No one can say you didn't sculp from scratch...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide." direct frm the gw page so... Mold at your own risk...

Of the myriad things on GW's legal page, that one is actually backed up by law.

Counterfeiting in particular is really what recasting is, and ownership of counterfeit goods is illegal, more so when you knowingly own such items.

drglnc wrote:
Can you buy the pads separately from gw? If not cast away, and those mood sticks are your best option. Easy to use, remake the mold if you don't like the first and the whole process is done in like 10 min. Press your gs into it and let it dry over night, make a mold with 5-10 so you can do many at once. When you have all you need, re heat the mold, destroy the evidence... No one can say you didn't sculp from scratch...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"Do not cast any materials that are based upon Games Workshop material. Games Workshop has to maintain a strict policy on this to fight counterfeiters. We would also remind you that reproduction for personal use is NOT an automatic exclusion in respect of copyright protection in many territories worldwide." direct frm the gw page so... Mold at your own risk...

...except when we show you how to do it in a white dwarf?

This sounds like the age old discussion about copyright etc. Seems to me like the average hobbyist has had to pay plenty to get into this hobby. Who exactly cares if a few people do it. Sure GW but then again, who? This sounds like the same depressing BS Universal tries to force on torrent sites.

This argument is ridiculous.

All of those snippets of copyright law involve some type of monetary damages being done to the holder of the IP. Essentially, no blood no foul.
For example, selling recasts. That takes money away from GW because I sold you a counterfeit. Illegal.
Or, a case could be made if I used GW's established detail to say "hey, my molds are so good I can copy this thing you've seen advertised". That is using their advertising for my gain. Monetary damage, so that is also against fair use. Illegal.
More abstract is the showing others how to make casts where many people might be influenced to try that and thus c-block GW out of a dollar or two. Shady.
Totally fine is saying "Hey I didnt want to ruin my fig, so I copied it to test stuff out on. Here are pics of that." It is fine because no one lost money. I wasn't going to spend it, it didnt show you any way to not spend it, and there is no way in hell GW would pursue a suit because that DOES cost money, and in the end they get laughed at. See also: Chapterhouse. That was more blatant, but still fair use.

If you are doing this in your own home, not selling it, in America, and were not going to give GW money, especially if it is for a product they do not offer, that is about as textbook fair use as anything possibly could get. Posting pictures of it is apparently against dakka policy, because the line is thin and people mess up. But if you're not crossing the line, and GW doesn't lose out on a single penny... then wtf is there to sue for damages for, again? Nothing? Sue for loss of zero dollars? That'll be rich. Sue because I posted a pic of a recast? Not likely. GW terms of use state that you can't even post a picture of their products without written permission. If it gets more draconian and effed than that, I'm not sure where.

Give me a kit kat. Because I need to take a break, and so do you. Actually, give me a twix, and I'm not sharing.

 Aerethan wrote:
Of the myriad things on GW's legal page, that one is actually backed up by law.

Hard to enforce, though. If they sue, just show up in court with the issue of White Dwarf that had the greenstuff casting tutorial.

Again, the burden of proving that you cost them money is on THEM.
It isn't "hey that guy made 40 shoulderpads at $1.00 each, he owes us $40, plus damages".
It IS on them to prove that you were going to spend that money anyway, sell it, or use it to advertise your own goods. all of those cause monetary damage to GW.

Anything else... come on. Take a cold shower.

I think the hot glue idea is intriguing, especially since another recent thread shows entire marines recast, in hot glue.
An entire model didn't cause much of a stir, but a shoulder pad does?

Anyhoo, you could always save yourself some time and hassle and just call customer service and pay the 90 cents plus shipping. Just sayin'...

Vitamin_K wrote:
I think the hot glue idea is intriguing, especially since another recent thread shows entire marines recast, in hot glue.
An entire model didn't cause much of a stir, but a shoulder pad does?

Anyhoo, you could always save yourself some time and hassle and just call customer service and pay the 90 cents plus shipping. Just sayin'...

I'd be happy to buy librarian terminator shoulder pads, but I don't think they exist. Those are metal models, right? Can I get just the terminator shoulder pad with book?

Vitamin_K wrote:
I think the hot glue idea is intriguing, especially since another recent thread shows entire marines recast, in hot glue.

Even more interesting is that they both came from the same guy!



Automatically Appended Next Post:

GW Terms of use wrote:The unauthorized posting of any of our intellectual property, including any images of our products or other artwork on any other website, including, but not limited eBay, Amazon or Craigslist is strictly prohibited.

UH OH! you posted a picture of your army! You're pirating GW product.
Bought an army off eBay? You're a criminal.
Drew a picture of a Space Marine? Shut it down.


Get real, folks. It's not ACTUALLY against the law until GW loses moey from it, and they can prove it in court.
Dakka just has that recast pic policy to avoid the headaches.
But does it follow the rest of the GW TOU? Hell to the no. There's even a ... gasp... ... oh my god it makes me sick... a gallery of all these pirated pics.

Games workshop sells greenstuff and has recent self-published documentation on how to duplicate their models with their greenstuff product.

In regards to the previous ToS quote, it only refers to their images, not the contents of images. You can use your own original photos of their product since you own the copyright to those photos. Using GW's photos from their website to sell stuff on ebay is what is violating their copyrights.

GW Terms of use wrote:The unauthorized posting of any of our intellectual property, including any images of our products or other artwork on any other website, including, but not limited eBay, Amazon or Craigslist is strictly prohibited.

If you have a Dakka Gallery, you have been complicit in unauthorized posting of GW intellectual property.
They also enforce recasts, or making papercraft versions (scratchbuilds) with the same level of denial of any kind of your rights based on your devaluing the model pool.

Why does Dakka allow pics of these? Why Does Dakka not care about posting scratchbuilds? Because GW will never actually act on that. They lose no money. Its free marketing. But they disallow it knowing it will be broken.

Why does Dakka frown on recasting? Because GW pursues cases where they feel they are getting screwed out of money, and they go through Dakka to get to me. Costs Dakka money to have someone hand that won't piss themselves talking to a GW lawyer. So the rule is don't do it, because Dakka has no recourse to get that money out of you, and you cause rectal ache.

So how does something like this get noticed by GW? It doesn't. Or if it does, it's by someone who mutters under their breath at your being a cheap git, and they move on unless you're showing others how to do it, not just the results. OR in the very rare case of you being COMPLETELY mentally void, you're offering them for sale or offering to do it for people. THAT gets noticed. Problem is trolls will ask to buy recasts, raising flags, OPs will respond with tentative plans to make money, more flags, and buyer reports are filed, what the hell sue someone.


So... just, i dunno... don't ever offer to buy my cool recasts... you can't have them. It's all just personal use, man.

I don't know why you keep bringing up random GW "rules" that have nothing to do with copyright.

As for your "no blood no foul" bit: If you cast a piece of theirs, it means that you didn't buy an original instead, which cost them a sale. That right there is monetary loss.

And the exclusive rights to a copyright holder still apply, one of which is the exclusive rights to produce copies. You don't own the copyright on these models, therefore you do not hold the right to produce copies.

I have no problems morally with recasting. That isn't the issue here. I'm tired of people underplaying the risk and legality of it. It is very much illegal, completely regardless of what you intend to do with the casts. To tell people otherwise is to give them false information on the risk they take by doing this.

Is speeding on a highway illegal? Yes. Do you always get caught doing it? No. Does that chance of getting caught make it less illegal? No.

On top of that, let's say(purely for arguments sake) that GW does decide to sue you and you use your little WD defense. Are you defending yourself? Who is your lawyer? How much do they charge? How long will the case last?

I'm 99% certain that GW could wipe you under the rug in legal fees. You could lose everything over that. So is it even worth the risk of being sued, whether think you are in the right or not?

I dare any of you to find an actual lawyer who would defend you in this case and actually believe they had a chance of winning.

Since when are lawyers nice and honest people that do things according to the books? You don't need a chance of winning, you need a country that's poor as hell, that should do the trick.

Also, like GW would ever chase after everyone that ever posted a picture of a recast product. Besides they'd be (i think) obliged to deal with the major recasting companies in China that sell via eBay first (which are sweet in my opinion, especially stuff from FW (which is way to fething expensive to begin with). Not to mention the negative press when some kid made something and then is bitch slapped in the balls with a fine. Anyway that's what i think, but then again perhaps you can hire a lawyer and come after the internet because its full of truth. No offense.

Edit, typo.

 spincr wrote:
Since when are lawyers nice and honest people that do things according to the books? You don't need a chance of winning, you need a country that's poor as hell, that should do the trick.

Also, like GW would ever chase after everyone that ever posted a picture of a recast product. Besides they'd be (i think) obliged to deal with the major recasting companies in China that sell via eBay (which is sweet in my opinion, especially stuff from FW (which is way to fething expensive to begin with). Not to mention the negative press when some kid made something and then is bitch slapped in the balls with a fine. Anyway that's what i think, but then again perhaps you can hire a lawyer and come after the internet because its full of truth. No offense.

Truth? What truth? Derr's ideas on fair use are opinion, certainly not the truth. What lawyer told him that what he's doing is legal? As opposed to all those lawyers from various places that say the exact opposite?

The reason that recasters in China and Russia get away with it is because of how almost impossible it is to actually go after them. Most of that has to do with their countries laws concerning IP.

And more important than any of these IP laws, are the following:

1. Dakka does not allow the hosting or posting of pictures that show recast models.
2. Dakka does not allow posts that explain in any detail how to recast any model that you don't own the copyright to.

So fine, tell people it's legal all you want, but don't do it here. This site has taken a stance on recasting, and if you don't like it then you aren't obliged to post here.

Cmon guys... forget about it... Lets use a gentleman (silent) agreement here:

Do you copy small parts to enrich your nice work? - ok, that is fine.

Do you copy some rare parts to spare them, as they are relics from another time? - i can deal with that, but dont do it in dozens please...

Do you copy it so you can sell them at lower prices tham GW? - You are a illegal man. Stop Doying that.

Lets have some sense?

And about chapter-house: they never recasted anything. They just used hooks left by GW, and make profit on it. GW issued them, but dont even knew why they have done that...

IP is just a tool artists and designers created to own they creations, so big companies could not just strip it from them. It ended evolving into a tool big companies use to enforce their power into creations that are not their... Look at the recent "The Hobbit" (the tavern) problem, caused by some lawyers over the movie IP...

 Aerethan wrote:

 spincr wrote:
Since when are lawyers nice and honest people that do things according to the books? You don't need a chance of winning, you need a country that's poor as hell, that should do the trick.

Also, like GW would ever chase after everyone that ever posted a picture of a recast product. Besides they'd be (i think) obliged to deal with the major recasting companies in China that sell via eBay (which is sweet in my opinion, especially stuff from FW (which is way to fething expensive to begin with). Not to mention the negative press when some kid made something and then is bitch slapped in the balls with a fine. Anyway that's what i think, but then again perhaps you can hire a lawyer and come after the internet because its full of truth. No offense.

Truth? What truth? Derr's ideas on fair use are opinion, certainly not the truth. What lawyer told him that what he's doing is legal? As opposed to all those lawyers from various places that say the exact opposite?

The reason that recasters in China and Russia get away with it is because of how almost impossible it is to actually go after them. Most of that has to do with their countries laws concerning IP.

And more important than any of these IP laws, are the following:

1. Dakka does not allow the hosting or posting of pictures that show recast models.
2. Dakka does not allow posts that explain in any detail how to recast any model that you don't own the copyright to.

So fine, tell people it's legal all you want, but don't do it here. This site has taken a stance on recasting, and if you don't like it then you aren't obliged to post here.

I'm not sure where you thought you read me saying it is currently legal. I'm just saying, its not like GW has the manpower or strategic advantage to go after civilian customers of them. Also i said no offense although its pretty clear you seem to take things personal, if you work for GW then that's just fine. The irony ís that if they relocated the production to China the prices would drop drastically (if not held high manually).

I don't work for GW, nor would I.

The thing I take so personally is when some new wanderer ends up here at Dakka telling people that it's legal to recast. All that does is breed a bunch of cheap skates who think that they'll save a buck and stick it to the man by recasting parts, because they don't think they could ever get in trouble over it.

Some people will recast. Those people need to understand the risk they take in doing so, instead of having stupid yes men telling them that it's legal and that GW has no rights to the production of copies of their work.

GW's rights on their models are no different than the rights of any small time artist over their own work.

And the fact remains that by making a copy, you are negating a sale, which is monetary loss on GW's part.

 Aerethan wrote:
I don't work for GW, nor would I.

The thing I take so personally is when some new wanderer ends up here at Dakka telling people that it's legal to recast. Once more i didn't say it is legal, if you're talking to someone else then be clear about it. All that does is breed a bunch of cheap skates who think that they'll save a buck and stick it to the man by recasting parts, because they don't think they could ever get in trouble over it. Sure sure, people have a tendency to do what they want and what's putting you so much higher than you're the one that can state public opinion?

GW's rights on their models are no different than the rights of any small time artist over their own work. Funny how you compare GW to a small artist's work. Fact is they hold most of the market and certain make a fatass profit doing so, next they don't do anything about the large operations that are violating their so called copyright and out of this you conclude people that bought their stuff shouldn't be able to talk or post about recreating a certain miniscule part of the product on the internet. I smell closemindedness. Why so serious.