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First let me say that I think IG of definitely of the cooler looking armies in 40k, so I'm not hating, just curious. I've noticed that IG gets called underdogs on dakka a lot, how is that so considering they are undeniably one of the strongest armies, can field tons of flyers, actually have AA and are the bearer of the Leafblower lists? Is it that the standard troops aren't superhumans? I mean, they're still the toughest humans available from countless billions and often come from Deathworlds, so it's not like they're some average Joe . . . Am I missing something? I can see people calling the near extinct and crappy-Codex Eldar underdogs, but one of the most powerful armies, from the second largest race in the Galaxy getting called underdogs just sounds bizarre.

They're underdogs, because even while you might win, your going to have to take allot of casualties to do so.

I play Mech Vet IG, and I still usually lots of guardsmen in a winning game. My pile of casualties almost always has more models then the entirety of the enemy's army.

They're underdogs in the fluff.

Just read the Imperial Armour campaign books - it's not a question of whether the Guard forces will lose, just how badly.

On the table they're a strong codex with lots of good builds.

Because in the fluff, the IG usually get its arse kicked and takes tons of casualties to do almost anything. And even if these guys are hardened deathworld veterans or hive gangers (many are not btw. Most are just factory workers, farmers, merchants, etc. that get conscripted into service) they are still just ordinary human beings.

When you pit them against 9 foot tall genetically engineered supersoldiers wearing tank armor, massive walking fungus monsters that have war for fun, ancient civilizations that have been around since the beginning of the universe, undying killer robots, a massive swarm of dinosaur insect monsters that want to consume everything, and literally the LEGIONS OF HELL, they are definitely the underdogs. Even though they know that it's essentially suicide to fight against such powerful beings, they still do so anyways, with what amounts to a t shirt on their backs and a really angry flashlight as their weapon. They refuse to back down and be overrun.

For in game terms, just because we have powerful weapons, doesn't mean we don't take a beating. Any IG player will tell you that no matter what list we bring, we always suffer extreme casualties. I play foot IG for example, and losing less than 70% of my infantry in a game I consider as rolling lucky. Most of the time, I have around 20% left alive. Even mech lists will take a good beating against a tough opponent, especially in 6th where vehicles die much faster. That's probably where people get the "underdog" idea for in game, even if we're a strong codex at the moment.

Guys I used to play or see a 40k 5th Ed game and in the end 5-7th turn the casualties were heave. And the objectives were holded 1-3 models.
There are no underdog armies. There are kinds of leagues and players and what really matters is what happened at the end. Not how many models were left. I ve won 5th Ed games with very few models. What's the problem? I ve still won.

Thatguyoverthere wrote:They're underdogs, because even while you might win, your going to have to take allot of casualties to do so.

This. The Imperial Guard wins a lot of battles, and it is indeed the Imperium's finest war machine, but every victory is purchased with the blood of countless soldiers who have sacrificed themselves in service to the Emperor.

It's the idea of an ordinary human being facing the galaxy's most terrible horrors that endears them to a lot of fans - as opposed to, say, genetically enhanced superhumans whose ability to feel fear is suppressed by brainwashing and chemo-indoctrination.

[edit]

MrMoustaffa wrote:When you pit them against 9 foot tall genetically engineered supersoldiers wearing tank armor [...]

Ugh. 7 foot, and even lasguns still have a chance to take them down.
I'm sorry, but the resilience of this urban myth really bothers me.

 Lynata wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:When you pit them against 9 foot tall genetically engineered supersoldiers wearing tank armor [...]

Ugh. 7 foot, and even lasguns still have a chance to take them down.
I'm sorry, but the resilience of this urban myth really bothers me.

Depends on the author. I remember reading several stories where they're said to be between 8 to 9 feet tall in their armor.

They're underdogs in the sense that a Guardsman, even if he's from Planet Rambo, is still just a man. In a universe of genetically engineered murderbeasts, evil spacewizards, and literal daemons, that dude is the underdog.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Depends on the author. I remember reading several stories where they're said to be between 8 to 9 feet tall in their armor.

Aye. Sorry. I'm generally going by GW's own fluff, even though there is no single "true" interpretation of the setting.
A lot of people just represent such numbers as actually being the "canon" height, when (a) there is no canon and (b) the studio material consistently says otherwise, which is when I go into nerdrage mode.

and the "underdog" chokes a full blown chaos lord of the night lords legion with bare hands .

IG is no underdog to me . game is won with special/hvy weapons and extra rules . IG have more and most offten cheaper then other armies . In the fluff they are worse then orcs. Orcs at least do war for fun , IG is tyranid swarm without the hive man . large numbers no focus.

Makumba wrote:
and the "underdog" chokes a full blown chaos lord of the night lords legion with bare hands .

Ah, but when a Colonel of the Imperial Guard does it, that's badass.
When a Space Marine chokes some beast it's just "everyday business".

That's a major difference, too - with Space Marines, what may come across as "epic" at first can, for some people, turn old fast, just because it gets less and less special everytime they pull some ultraheroic feat. You expect them to do so. Marine fans like this, Guard fans think it's more cool when it's an exception from the rule. At least that's what I consider the most apparent difference between both groups?

Because we suffer horrific losses every time we play. Be you a foot or a mech player by turn 6 not much of your army is still standing and that which is usually lack the teeth to do any thing meaningful.
Even if you plan for 50% to 70% loses (some of that will be from their own guns if you run plasma heavy lists, ) its still hard to hold that winning objective when you have a full assault TDA squad bearing down on you.

Gaunts are even more fragile fodder, does that mean Nids get the Underdog crown?

 Brother SRM wrote:
They're underdogs in the sense that a Guardsman, even if he's from Planet Rambo, is still just a man. In a universe of genetically engineered murderbeasts, evil spacewizards, and literal daemons, that dude is the underdog.

This sums it up really. The average guardsmen will not survive a bolter round or a brutal round of race shredding by a horumgaunt