Switch Theme:

Panzerspah...thoughts?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Oberleutnant





So, after a bout of trading, I've ended up with about 7 Luchs and that has me pondering a panzerspah list. Anyone have any experiences with this? I'm not expecting huge things, but it looks to be quite different than my usual lists.

I was thinking something along the lines of

HQ luchs
3 luchs
3 luchs
3 luchs or 4 8-rads

panthers or tigers, if tigers then probably O.C. as well.
nebels or possibly hummels

I am leaning to no infantry to speak of. Just seems like an obvious fire magnet for opposing infantry given the inability of AT 1-2 to damage the luchs from the front. By the same token, aircraft would probably not be used given the movement of the recce units

Using the pdf list for panzerspah a 1750 list would be
HQ Luchs
2 8-rad units of 2
unit of 3 Luchs
unit of 3 Luchs
3 Panthers
4 Brumbars
3 Hummels - pzIII observer
2 armored quad Kfz 7/1
8 deployments, 4 units of recce








 
   
Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Hatfield, PA

Looking at your list shows the usefulness of armored car/light mech forces in LW. They are VERY hard to use successfully and really need to be supported by much heavier fire to be made useful on the table against enemy armor. Infantry is also important with light mech force because your main units are easily popped by enemy units. The Luchs and other armored cars are really only capable of resisting basic fire from the front. Enemy infantry move around you and even their rifle stands can ultimately bring you down under weight of fire.

I love armored cars and play them in EW and MW all the time. The only times I have tried to use them in LW has lead to completely wipeage from the table in short order, especially in scenarios that make you split up your force and your lighters just can't hold the line long enough for the rest of your heavy units to come on the table.

In LW light mech units and recon are best used in support roles to remove concealment bonuses from enemy units for artillery or other units to attack them more easily. They also keep ambushes away from your really important units as well. Once you hit LW they really don't have the weapons or staying power to be effective as front line forces and as you can see in your own list there you will really be relying on all of the support units to win the battle for you and not the Luchs, so you may as well focus on one of those lists instead. If you just want to see what it is like to run such a force, by all means give it a go and you'll see how the Luchs don't perform if facing enemy armor.

I do highly recommend a light mech force for the other two war periods, though. In EW, with most tanks having similar armor levels, the armored cars can be very effective. Heck before the change to the One-man turret rule in the new edition, the French Panhard armored cars worried me more than their tanks did. The panhards could move and still fire their main gun which made them more dangerous and manueverable. MW isn't too late for armored cars/mech forces either. Until the tigers start appearing late in the period, they can still get the job done pretty effectively.

Skriker

CSM 6k points CSM 4k points
CSM 4.5k points CSM 3.5k points
and Daemons 4k points each
Renegades 4k points
SM 4k points
SM 2.5k Points
3K 2.3k
EW, MW and LW British in Flames of War 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

I've had great success with Pumas, but I haven't used the Luchs yet.

Pumas have enough firepower to be a serious threat against medium tanks. They're fast enough to get side armor shots, and will do damage when they hit.

However, realize that every armored car is only top armor 0, and you only have 3 luchs per platoon and they are not wide tracked. So you'll want to take some mechanized infantry to get into woods to assault. Even with the hummels and brumbars to knock out entrenched infantry, you'll still want infantry when you're forced to defend multiple objectives. A bunch of armored cars may have a lot of platoons to cover objectives, but they won't be able to hold them effectively.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Sheffield, UK

Luchs are top armour 1.

Infantry can make themselves very difficult to kill, going GtG on an objective is a good use for them. You can take Aufklarung platoons, both armoured and unarmoured. Both have their uses, unarmoured are motorcycle recon and armoured throw out a ton of firepower with their half tracks (three dice per half track and infantry base) will put the pain on anything unarmoured.

All this does lack anti tank. I recommend Panthers. With all that recon they should be safe from ambush and they are excellent at anti tank work. Better still, take Jagpanthers if they are available in your list (not Grey Wolf).

You may also want to invest in some FlaKwagens.


Spain in Flames: Flames of War (Spanish Civil War 1936-39) Flames of War: Czechs and Slovaks (WWI & WWII) Sheffield & Rotherham Wargames Club

"I'm cancelling you, I'm cancelling you out of shame like my subscription to White Dwarf." - Mark Corrigan: Peep Show
 
   
Made in gb
Oberstleutnant





Back in the English morass

Recce armies sound good in theory but they don't work all that well on the table (they did poorly in stand up fights in the real world as well).

They need a lot of support to work as armoured cars/light tanks simply can't kill much on their own and they will melt if they get caught. The down side is that recce tends to be quite expensive which cuts down on the support that you can afford.

They are fine for a fun list though

RegalPhantom wrote:
If your fluff doesn't fit, change your fluff until it does
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog 
   
Made in us
Oberleutnant





Of this list is most definately a "for fun" thing and other than 8-rads, limited to models on hand.

using the PDF I can get jPanthers, but those things always seem to suffer from the fact that many other things can usually do what they can do but at a lower price. Admittedly, they are sexy, and I do have 3 that seldom hit the table. That alone could serve as justification for taking them. I also came up with the following.

HQ Luchs
2 8 rads
2 8 rads
3 Luchs
3 Luchs
Full Gep.Aufk. cmmd with faust
Full Px IVH
3 Hornisse
3 Nebls
2 Kfz 7/1 armored quad 2cms.

9 deployments, which I never reach with CV germans. Also, I think it is important to note that our normal tables at my club are typically pretty dense with terrain. Seldom, unless it is a run of road, does LOS extend past 12 inches, and when that does it is usually because it is crop land.

Lots of hedges. Lots of trees. Lots of places for recce to disengage and lots of places for ambush.

Other than the 3 8-rads I will still need, this thng has -tons of options. Heck, might even get saucy...I just noticed "limited" german air in a latewar list!







 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

Panzerspahs didn't do well in real life, but in FoW these lists represent both the armored cars and other recon elements, along with the breakthrough forces, and the divisional support that would follow through any gaps they found.

I've had great success with them. I keep the armored cars moving and in concealment, keeping my opponent off balance. But, I'm using Pumas, and they have enough AT to kill tanks from the side.

I would recommend staying away from Hornisse and say that if you really want that gun, get King Tigers and drop other stuff for them. This is because you will need something in your army that can stand up front and take a hit, being a threat that stops an enemy cold and can't be swept aside after one turn of shooting, as opposed to just another thin skinned vehicles that will get killed after the turn it pops up. It's not enough shots for you to do with full tank companies, and you have to remember that your Luchs and armored cars will not cut it.

If you need tank hunters, you'll want marders instead. This way you get a lot of decent AT shots going out in one turn, especially on ambush. This will help you deal with medium tank companies. If your opponent has heavies, you can drop artillery on them over time (Hummels work great for this) and use other tanks to get flank shots on them.

That platoon of Pz4s is a good idea.

I would actually recommend keeping the Hummels over Hornise. They work incredibly well with Panzerspah.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Maryland

I love the PanzerSpah lists

HQ Puma
3 Puma
3 Puma
2x2 8-Rad
3x 233 (7.5cm)
MotoAufks, Full w Pzft
3 Armored 3.7cm AA
3 NW41s
3 Pak40s w trucks
4 Stugs
1750/10plts

Another version w Luchs, more anti-infantry oriented
HQ Luchs
3 Luchs
3 Luchs
2x2 8-Rads
3x 233(7.5cm)
GpAufks w Pzft, 3.7cm gun
3 Armored 3.7cm AA
3 NW41s
3 Brummbars
4 Stugs
1750/10 plts

   
 
Forum Index » Historical Miniature Games: WW1 to Modern
Go to: