Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been told that High elves are the best to do a more medieval style army with lots of archers and spearmen. Is this possible in a semi-competitive manner?

Looking for around 1k points to start
really like; spearmen, archers, silver helms.
Its the dwarf in me (the part that cries treason for even thinking about high elves) but i really don't like magic so being able to dispel a lot of magic would be helpful.

So a list that shows how inept i am at planning new armies

Mage- lore?
25 spearmen fc
25 spearmen fc
16 archers
10 Silver helms- musician

I found this resource quite helpfull when planning my high elf army.

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=37969

thanks!

So now it looks more like...

Mage
29 spearmen
29 spearmen
10 Dragon princes

Two big static blocks, which won't be able to support the only mobile unit of cavalry... I'd love to rip this army apart with my underdog Wood Elves .
The golden rule with HE is to take the minimum 25% of core and nothing more - 60 spearelves appear to be more than 250 points.... I'd suggest to take one unit of 10 archers - at this points level they will shoot something. Or just go with Spearelves full command and Razorbanner, but You will have to put lvl 2 Mage with Lore of Shadows and Silver Wand with them for buffs - You want mindrazor among those three spells. Btw, taking 30 Spearelves should get the minimum Core requirement, so maybe do not bother with archers. One Great Eagle would be nice - You will be taking him at bigger games as well. Take less Dragon Princes and try to fit at least one unit of elite infantry - 2 x 5 MSU swordmasters for example, or 10 White Lions...

what's a razorbanner?


lvl 2 mage
30 spearmen fc
10 swordmasters fc
5 dragon princes
great eagle

will 10 swordmasters do anything, what is their purpose? So far in the games i've played with the dwarfs the big blocks of 25 were just holding their own at t4 and s5 and were near wiped every time.

Razor banner gives armor piercing to unit. You use Swordmasters for flank charges - with two Str 5 attacks and always striking first they are quite brutal - either take one unit of 7 or 2 x 5. Hold the unit with Spearelves and hit the enemy in flank with Swordmasters. Mage casts withering on enemy and mindrazor on Spearelves. All elves in warhammer needs unit synergie to win - my proposed is far from perfect (I'd have preferred two units of archers and Shadow mage for withering), but at least these units will be useful in larger games. Just keep in mind that HE strugle in low points games, since everything is quite expensive and fragile. Another option for the Mage is to take Lore of Life and cast buffs.

Ah, I see.

i do wonder if perhaps I should be looking at empire for large blocks of spearmen or whether to toss the idea out entirely.

IF You are looking for large blocks of infantry, then High Elves is not Your army - You would be better with Goblins or Skavens actually , not Empire. But IF You wish to play High Elves, then a different approach is still viable - medium sized units (15-20) of elite Special Infantry, backed up by wee bigger blocks of Core Infantry AND properly tailored mages with specifically picked magic lores. Add in archery, eagles, and that's HE army for You.

Eh... I've never been a big fan of goblins or ratmen tbh.

So I'm looking at like blocks of 15 for swordmasters/phoenix guard/white lions and blocks of 20-25 of spearmen? I guess I need to see it relative to dwarfs as I run blocks of 25 at 1k points. I understand that elves fold a lot faster and don't necessarily hit as hard but at least get to hit first (which will be a complete shock to me)

What size games do High Elves excel at?

21 for swordsmaster and lions. 25-30 for spears. All your core is for is to house your archmage, unless you go for the power spears, then you want 20 phoenix guard to house your archmage whilst you mindrazor your horde of 40 spearmen. High elves excell at 2k+

Ah. a bit higher than I was hoping for. I have a bad case of shiny model syndrome so I try to keep the points down because i run off to the next thing before i know it.

The numbers sound good though, right about the sizes I was hoping for, not tiny but not huge either.

Out of curiosity, what points level does Empire excel at?

Where do Dragon Princes or Silver helms (Heard they suck though) fit into the picture or are they really subpar choices regardless?

Most WFB armies are "balanced" and written with 2400+ games in mind. Most games in my area are 2500.

That said, some armies pull off small games much better than others.

Dragon princes are excellent, Silver Helms are super terrible, purely on account of them being a special unit. If they were core, they'd be worth taking. The idea that High Elves don't have ANY regular cavalry troops in their forces is stupid.

1000 is for the most part the smallest army size that one should use with the Core Rules composition. Armies smaller than that and you delve into Warbands rules which make things much easier and balanced.

There was recently a thread that brought up smallest legal armies, which I think went to Skaven and then Goblins, both under 150 points.

Dragon Princes and Silver Helms act as heavy hitting flank options. The reason Silver Helms are sub-par is that they have to be compared to Dragon Princes (they take up the same Special Slot after all). We have three mounted options for HE, fast scouts in the form of Reavers, Light Cavalry in the Silver Helms, and Heavy Cavalry in the Dragon Princes. You simply pay too much for Silver Helms for what you get; one attack, average leadership, average armor save, still toughness 3. By the time you spend points to upgrade Silver Helms, you're spending nearly the same as a Dragon Prince models base price, but you still have average leadership and only 1 A. If you are going to run Silver Helms instead of Dragon Princes, it should be at higher points games, keep them as dirt cheap as possible, and you'll have to take quite a few if you want them to have any chance of living through a combat. They can't really break lines in a head-on assault, and don't perform terribly well in small numbers in the flank either. Both choices have a purpose, the problem just remains that they share the same effective purpose, and one does it much better for the price paid.

Aerethan is quite right, if Silver Helms were a core choice, they would become instantly more appealing.

Just as a reference, when\if you start playing higher points games, bigger blocks do become an option. If you get into 2k+ games, standard core choice can be a block of 50 spearmen with a full command and magic banner. Comes out to 500 points on the nose. Big infantry blocks aren't common in lower points games with HE, as previously stated, but they do make it into the army eventually.

The biggest thing that stood out to me was your mentioning of a dislike for magic. On that note alone, I'd strongly suggest picking a different army. HE synergy is very magic dependent. Armor saves across the board are terrible (5+ on average), everything is toughness 3 or worse (save monsters and such), and standard units are pretty expensive (every casualty suffered will feel like 2-3, or more). Magic is needed to either leveling the field with offense power or balance the tides with augments and buffs to your units. Hex's and debuffing the enemy does have its uses, but I've found that to be less effective. All of the HE units excel very well in the offense department, but lack defense and survivability; they rarely need extra help making something easier to kill, they need help getting to it to kill it!). High Magic is very well rounded for lower points games, if you want to go more buff choose Life, more offense choose Fire. Higher points games, give Light a try for buffing and Shadow for debuffing.