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I think tyranids could easily get allies following fluff. Fluff wise it makes sense for them to ally with Dark Eldar, Eldar, Imperial Guard,Orks, and Tau Empire because they all reproduce and that is how genestealers infest so they could all be allies because of genestealer cults. What are your opinions on Tyranid allies

Please do a quick search first. DE: Nope. They're viewed as abomination and DE live in Commie, making them fairly immune. Eldar, nope. Genestealers can't replicate the psychic signature, and Nids are more likely to destroy than infiltrate craftworlds. IG Yes; you would find genestealers amongst IG, best represented with the 4e Witch Hunters Mutants at a points discount for updated power creep. Orks can instantly tell Genestealers apart from their own kind, Tau outright cleanse-and-burn anything touching or tainted by the Devourer.

Simply reproducing does not mean Genestealers can get to you. Think of them more as spies than "zomg magic tentacles from sekrit!" - they infiltrate the lower rungs and rely on their ability to go unnoticed until their numbers cannot be denied; they don't do well in situations where there simply aren't the numbers (DE, Eldar), are natural barriers in place (Ork genetics, Tau communism and surveillance).

Humans, truly are the most threatened by Genestealers aside from outright frontal assault.

As to taking allies without bringing Mutants into this; Allow an IG retinue to take a couple broodlord genestealer troops choices as allies. It's the only 'fluffy' fix that makes any sort of sense, while also falling into the "I'm not just putting tanks in my nids list."

Dark eldar actually mind controlled some and used them in an assault when they were helping the tau. That bit is in the dark eldar codex.

Genestealer cults used to have models. so IG would easily be in.

If tau could get that vespid mind hat working for nids, then maybe. I think the hive mind's influence is to strong.

 Thrawn2600 wrote:
Dark eldar actually mind controlled some and used them in an assault when they were helping the tau. That bit is in the dark eldar codex.

Genestealer cults used to have models. so IG would easily be in.

If tau could get that vespid mind hat working for nids, then maybe. I think the hive mind's influence is to strong.

It's not a matter of influence for the Tau. They regard the nids as abomination; to be cleansed at any cost.

DE using nids in their force is more similar to my preference for genestealer cults; a small nids force taken as ally to the main DE force. Nids simply don't have allies, though for gameplay and cinematic reasons genestealer cults should allow them a small selection of mutants or small forces of nids to be taken as desperates for certain factions, as well as nids allying with nids. In my opinion, of course.

The genestealer cults work with the main hive after the genestealers arrive on planet they infect somebody of the sentient race in control of this planet is is not made out that they have been infected that individual is then given an insatiable need to breed they do the offspring then has that same need but is not a run of the mill genestealer and still look like the original race but as this continues and more genestealers are made the genestealer genes become more and more prevolent those original members start to rise in the ranks of society until they have a position of power then after the infestation has grown the original broodlord then makes them go against the world after their numbers have grown then the hive fleet comes and devourers them all but genestealer cults work with the have then giving way to Tyranids having allies

The workings of Genestealers is not unknown to most on the forums; Again, the classic rebuttal to genestealer cults outside of humanity is simple: The Dark Eldar and Eldar are too advanced and secluded for it to work, Orks are too genetically adapted against them (Genestealer Orks "smell" un-orkish, and are killed), Tau have strictly controlled and monitored lives and their ships and populace are routinely screened against threat from the Devourer, Necrons have no genetics, Space Marines are too elite and have too many genetic screenings, etc.

Regular human worlds with low levels of authoritative overwatch are usually the only ones who succumb to the ravages of genestealer cults. There is no fluff pointing otherwise; there is nothing to support your insistence that just because a race breeds, it is susceptible to genestealers.

There WAS fluff WAY back in the day pointing toward orky and eldar genestealers - back in the day of sweet-ass limo driving gang-banging mafia genestealers; it was retconned via the above explanations (psychic signature and ork genetics were too immutable to allow for it).

See no problem with eldar and de if they have sex it can spread they infect the individual the individual has no memory then they want to start a family and I slowly starts rewriting DNA then I spreads they cannot be too secluded the doom of malantai got a craftworld on its own and tau they could just get the ethereal first

Blatant disregard for fluff: Check

Misconstruing events to support this disregard: Check

More disregard for fluff: Triple-check.

Your logic: Genestealer somehow makes contact with, and infects, a lone eldar or dark eldar. That lone eldar or dark eldar somehow does not know it is infected (this is the first impossibility) and goes on to breed (not impossible, but impossible given the first, and unlikely given that ELDAR AND DARK ELDAR HAVE SUPERFEW CHILDREN). Then, a child is born (one in a million) and nobody recognizes the taint (impossible).

Verdict: Even if one or two children ARE somehow born through MASSIVELY implausible circumstances, they would be killed the moment they were observed abomination, most likely in-virto.

The doom got to malan'tai BY WAYS OF A TOTAL FRONTAL ASSAULT. It literally slipped in as one of THOUSANDS of mycetic spores, and subverted the wraithbone matrix while the rest of the craftworld was fighting off the invasion. Genestealers have nothing to do with this.

How are you going to infect a tau of ANY rank, let alone an ETHEREAL, without getting genestealers in contact with them? Protip,you aren't. Even the gue'la are screened for Devourer taint. Every individual in the Tau Empire is subject to routine and random checks of all sorts, follows an incredibly predictable set routine for most of their lives, and is genetically screened before being allowed to mate - as well as the embryo and fetus continually screened to make sure no unwanted birth defects occur - such as tentacle face.

First with the eldar genestealers kill most of a group of eldar infect the rest then they have no memory of the infection because of genestealers if anyone is infected they lose memory off the event it is in the fluff I'm not just pulling that out of my ass I know what I'm talking about also how would the eldar detect them and how would tau detect them instantaneously


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Also Tyranids could work with necrons the necrons staying out of the way but killing with tyranids and after the tyranids devour all of the biomass they leave and necrons get a world back because tyranids have no reason to attack necrons as long as necrons do not attack or get in the way

Necron fluff states they despise all other life forms, as rodents, as there is no nobility among them. They grudgingly allie with those giants among men as one might ally with a troglodyte - but the tyranids are a blight on their galaxy to be whiped out.

It's not about having the world itself - it's about having the world, as it is, untouched, as the Necrons are the only ones with a RIGHT to be on that world and take its splendor, whether they're going to use it or not.

Eldar are a highly psychic, very old, and very advanced race; genestealers infect their victims, altering their physiques, their mannerisms, and their psychic signature. These are all things that are picked up by their brethren; they've had thousands of years to get to know each other, and their personas are familiar and rigid; since the birth of slaanesh, most Eldar have locked themselves into singular paths in order to stave off decadence and corruption with duty - paths straight and narrow. Variance in these paths is tantamount to suicide, and the Eldar are a dwindling race - those around them would make sure they were well, cleansing them of tyranid taint with powerful technologies and magics.

And again, eldar children are far too rare for a genestealer infestation to gain any ground - once again assuming the impossible, that an Eldar is walking around with his psychic aura all out of whack and no one stops to question it.


For the Tau, it's not about finding it instantly. It's about preventing it altogether. The Tau have had two real enemies in the past couple millennia - Orks, and Tyranids. They deal with Orks with extreme prejudice, cleansing with flame and "salting the earth" to prevent new spores from taking root. The Tyranids, however, are another matter - given a special name, the Devourer, the Hivemind, the black wind from beyond - absolutely no precautions have been or can be spared when it comes to warding off Tyranid threat. Every strain they've been able to capture analyzed and documented, and for every threat the Tyranids, a countersolution has been found and enacted. This is right core in the Tau and Tyranid fluff; for every genetic adaptation the Tyranids throw at them, the Tau counter with a technological marvel.

Genestealers have been neutralized by a series of interplanetary checkpoints, deadlocks, and verification points. If a ship is infested, its occupants' lives are forfeit. So no, Genestealers aren't found out instantly - they simply don't make it to the planet.

But even then, assume they do - Tau don't interact socially like humans. Their entire lives are dictated by endless schedules and updates, with scant time for personal lives; they live a mere 40 years, and have much to do in that time. The earth caste is busy engineering the next great leap in technology, the water caste is busy solving disputes and arranging logistics, the air caste is constantly traveling from one place to another, and the fire caste is constantly training or defending the third sphere.

At every point in its life, Tau are watched, recorded. AI drones monitor civilians and disrupt hostilities. Recreational events are closely monitored. Personal lives have no privacy. Streets, undercities, sewage, back-alleys, everywhere is lit and watched. There are no dead spots where a camera might miss. There are no sleeping guards.

Unlike humans, when Tau settle planets, they do so in a fixed and rigid manner; there is no initial colony, with a mayor and a spreading. There's a base camp where drones and earth caste finalize terrestrial details, and then automated construction, and then a planet bent to the Tau, identical to hundreds of others in every way, and millions are shipped from overcrowded planets, screened, and settled.

Where, then, would genestealers hide? There is no wilderness, no dark corners of society. There are no outcasts, no stowaways, no dregs. Each Tau, from birth to death, has a place and a duty, and they fill that duty, or they die young - if a Genestealer were to attack and infect a host, eventually either a scheduled medical checkup would catch the infection, or his erratic behaviour would lead to inquiries and video-tape reviews, and new recognition algorithms would be programmed into the drones that somehow missed the attack.

As for an Ethereal, chances are if a Genestealer gets close to one, it's because the planet is already doomed, and the escape vessel has been captured. Regardless, an infected ethereal is still forfeit to spacing if his ship attempts to board in Tau-controlled space. Also, ethereals don't have any genitals and it's not well understood how or if they mate.

It's warhammer there is always a way and actually they don't change behavior until they are ready for the track so there probably would be no change in behavior minus the newfound lust or maybe they find a lone eldar or tau ship slaughter security cut off surveillance then infect civilians taking the ship using the information gained from the tai on the ship seeing as they have no memory of the events that transpired then getting info on the ship using it to help lead the swarm because of info gained of taking control of the ship and then assuming they were not detected in time the stealer hybrids attack the tau/eldar planet


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Also seeing as that is how necrons feel towards the other races they should not be allied with anyone


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Also the genestealer taint cannot simply be removed it is integrated into the hosts DNA

Tau ships are A) under surveillance from inside and out via drones. and B) crew members are subject to genetic testing

before they set foot on a loading dock. That's what a deadlock is; an area where you are locked, and if not up to standards, become dead.

While it is warhammer and there's always exceptions, your exceptions still must be internally consistent. "Because it's warhammer and I want it this way!" will earn you ridicule for your pedantry. "Because genestealers are so cool!" is no better than "BECAUSE SPESS MARUHSN!" - If, for some weird reason, you want non-human genestealers, you are going to have to go ABOVE AND BEYOND accepted fluff for genestealers and the races you want them to be infesting, in a manner that is acceptable to both tyranids and infected faction players. I suggest adding lots of explosions, while you're at it.

In regards to your edited points: Some Necron leaders feel that Space Marines, and sometimes Tau, are noble enough to be grudging allies at times. Tyranids have done nothing to earn this honour.

Genetics is an art mastered, literally, millions of years ago by the Eldar. Why should they care for some foreign, inferior DNA in their systems? Even man, in its technological age, had rejuvination casks that could restore an old man to his prime through genetic therapy and body transplant.

It is possible for malfunctions to happen with tau machines then they invade you think nothing of possibilities and hypotheticals no one is perfect and in fact the closest race to perfection are tyranids so it is possible for infiltration amongst Tau and eldar ranks honestly it seems like you just came to this topic to say 'no it cant happen' it is possible and makes more sense then tau and space marines being battle brothers or some of the other allies like grey knights and dark eldar when dark eldar might as well be worshipers of the hermaphrodite slaanesh

It just proves that Tyranids are the most evil army in warhammer 40k since they are the only army that hates everybody. whereas chaos daemons are allies with CSM, IG, Orks,Tau and dark eldar

Tyranids shouldn't be too worried about not being allowed to ally anyway. Remember, it works both ways - would you want to see someone allying with Nids just so they can abuse Tervigon spam in their Imperial Guard list?

Can't they have others Tyranids as allies ? Hive fleets can have distinctiveness, after all.

As far as Genestealer hybrids work, I think only Guard and Orks could make any sense.

@chrisrawr: I agree, you are a person that uses reason convincingly.

@wolftheassassin53: hahahaha!

 Thrawn2600 wrote:
Dark eldar actually mind controlled some and used them in an assault when they were helping the tau. That bit is in the dark eldar codex.

Genestealer cults used to have models. so IG would easily be in.

If tau could get that vespid mind hat working for nids, then maybe. I think the hive mind's influence is to strong.

The problem is that a genestealer cult is not the Imperial Guard, they won't have tanks, they won't get veterans, they won't get carapace armour. A "fluffy" genestealer list would probably be.
Tyranid Prime: Counts as the patriarch
2 Units of Genestealers: Pure blood genestealers, duh.
Primaris Psyker: Counts as the Magus
Infantry Platoons, with a heavy focus on conscripts: The scum of the world that have been united by the genestealer cult
Penal Legions: Fleet and Rending options can represent human/genestealer crossbreeds, and as for the shooting, I got nothing

Not an effective army list, but it is fluffy, and since it is so non-competitive I can't imagine anyone saying no to it. If you want something more effective your best bet is to make a genestealer army list, so you can design units from the start to fill specific roles. Perhaps your list could include Patriarchs, Magus, Genestealers, and all manner of mutants. Perhaps something like a modular "mutant" troop choice that can be blobbed and have specific mutations purchased like a 5+ armour save (standard could be 6+) to represent an some bits of exo-skeleton, +1 attack to represent extra limbs, rending to represent being born with genestealer claws, +1 S, +1 T, +2 I to represent the mutants being born with the strength or reflexes of natural toughness of genestealers.

Buttons wrote:

 Thrawn2600 wrote:
Dark eldar actually mind controlled some and used them in an assault when they were helping the tau. That bit is in the dark eldar codex.

Genestealer cults used to have models. so IG would easily be in.

If tau could get that vespid mind hat working for nids, then maybe. I think the hive mind's influence is to strong.

The problem is that a genestealer cult is not the Imperial Guard, they won't have tanks, they won't get veterans, they won't get carapace armour. A "fluffy" genestealer list would probably be.
Tyranid Prime: Counts as the patriarch
2 Units of Genestealers: Pure blood genestealers, duh.
Primaris Psyker: Counts as the Magus
Infantry Platoons, with a heavy focus on conscripts: The scum of the world that have been united by the genestealer cult
Penal Legions: Fleet and Rending options can represent human/genestealer crossbreeds, and as for the shooting, I got nothing

Not an effective army list, but it is fluffy, and since it is so non-competitive I can't imagine anyone saying no to it. If you want something more effective your best bet is to make a genestealer army list, so you can design units from the start to fill specific roles. Perhaps your list could include Patriarchs, Magus, Genestealers, and all manner of mutants. Perhaps something like a modular "mutant" troop choice that can be blobbed and have specific mutations purchased like a 5+ armour save (standard could be 6+) to represent an some bits of exo-skeleton, +1 attack to represent extra limbs, rending to represent being born with genestealer claws, +1 S, +1 T, +2 I to represent the mutants being born with the strength or reflexes of natural toughness of genestealers.

So... Like the 4e WH mutants

 chrisrawr wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 Thrawn2600 wrote:
Dark eldar actually mind controlled some and used them in an assault when they were helping the tau. That bit is in the dark eldar codex.

Genestealer cults used to have models. so IG would easily be in.

If tau could get that vespid mind hat working for nids, then maybe. I think the hive mind's influence is to strong.

The problem is that a genestealer cult is not the Imperial Guard, they won't have tanks, they won't get veterans, they won't get carapace armour. A "fluffy" genestealer list would probably be.
Tyranid Prime: Counts as the patriarch
2 Units of Genestealers: Pure blood genestealers, duh.
Primaris Psyker: Counts as the Magus
Infantry Platoons, with a heavy focus on conscripts: The scum of the world that have been united by the genestealer cult
Penal Legions: Fleet and Rending options can represent human/genestealer crossbreeds, and as for the shooting, I got nothing

Not an effective army list, but it is fluffy, and since it is so non-competitive I can't imagine anyone saying no to it. If you want something more effective your best bet is to make a genestealer army list, so you can design units from the start to fill specific roles. Perhaps your list could include Patriarchs, Magus, Genestealers, and all manner of mutants. Perhaps something like a modular "mutant" troop choice that can be blobbed and have specific mutations purchased like a 5+ armour save (standard could be 6+) to represent an some bits of exo-skeleton, +1 attack to represent extra limbs, rending to represent being born with genestealer claws, +1 S, +1 T, +2 I to represent the mutants being born with the strength or reflexes of natural toughness of genestealers.

So... Like the 4e WH mutants

Yes. Granted if he is making his own codex he could toss in whatever upgrades he wants anyway.

My main problem with StealerCult allies for Nids is that the Tyranids wouldn't care that the people were infected - they'd just eat them anyway.

 Vampirate of Sartosa wrote:
My main problem with StealerCult allies for Nids is that the Tyranids wouldn't care that the people were infected - they'd just eat them anyway.

Well, yes, they eat ALL of the biomass on a planet, including themselves, and they pack it up into their Norns and their Bioships and then they frryyyy to the next planet with CHON. Think of Genestealer cults as nut crackers; sure you could grind your teeth down on the walnut, but there's so many useful tools to help get that tasty biomass inside, so why bother?

What is the point of commenting just to say it cant happen im not looking to just throw tanks and gak in my army i am looking to do something different

@Wolf maybe you should do some soulsearching if you can't answer that for yourself. The way you've presented your thinking on this is incoherent, inconsistent, lacking in respect for other factions, lacking in respect for genestealer fluff, lacking in accuracy, lacking in presentability, and overall ignoring everything said by everyone in order to push some, frankly, juvenile and misrepresentative ideas. And you expect or need praise or constructive criticism to further this trend?

Without some serious rethinking of how you BASIC IDEA-FORMING AND DESIGN-PROCESSES work, your basic ignorance of 40K fluff, of how community feedback works, and of how ideas are supposed to be presented, are all going to continue exactly as they are now - that is, you are going to continue ignoring anyone says and any evidence against your ideas, while latching onto any faint praise or interest as if it validates you somehow.

This is unhealthy thinking, unhealthy posting, and unhealthy human interaction. Step back. Look at 40K objectively. Read through some other codecies for Tyranid battles, read some BL books and xenology. Come at this from an informed and respectful angle.

The most constructive criticism I can give you is that you absolutely need to mature your rational, critical thinking and communication before coming at a project like this, because you demonstrate, repeatedly, an extremely dissonant, incoherent, and poorly understood view of the subject material.

Note that I understand this post may cross some boundaries of the forum rules, and am alright with accepting punishment for it - as I genuinely believe that an honest review of WtA's critical and higher thinking skills would benefit not only the forums, but him personally, a great deal - especially if he's younger. The earlier you get into the habit of continual, honest, and rational thought and observation, the earlier you can do-away with biases and misbeliefs restraining you. So, yeah.