Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ive been playing a long time with Ork and I could use some help with my list. I typically play against SM and get rolled.

HQ
-------
Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

Troops
-------
4x 19 shoota boys + Nob with PK BP and heavy armor (20 total)
Rokkit launcher on 1 boy and the Nob for each squad

Elite
-------
10x Lootas
8x Burnas
5x Nobz
Painboy, PK Waaagh! Banner, PK, Big Choppa, Choppa Slugga (all with Cybork Body)

Fast Attack
------
3x Deft Kopta ( non squadron taking 3 Fast Attack slots)
3x TL Rokkit Launcha
1x Buzz Saw

Heavy Support
-------
2x Battlewagon
Deffrolla, Armor Plates, and Big Shoota

They will transport Nobz and Burnas

My intent is to bust up transports and dreads with Koptas and Battlewagons while slogging the boys to objectives or SM's.
Any thoughts would be awesome

Thanks in advance!

looks like a fairly standard list - the question is what goes wrong?

it may be that you are presenting targets to the opponent one at a time without doinng the real target saturation element that orks are supposed to.

You may be a little light on the long range shooting - perhaps more lootas or Kannons. You may be trying to do a little of everything without really getting a focus (5 nobs and 8 burnas aren't worth a battle waggon each) perhaps drop 1 battle waggon, use it for a larger burna squad, and put the nobs on bikes or combine 2 of the copta squads and convert the nobs to warbikers. How well is the shock attack gun working out? - perhaps use a KFF?

Not a big fan of rokkit launchers they seem expensive to me.
You may also want to vary the sizes of your boys mobs, have a smaller one for holding a back objective and larger ones for smashing the front. you may find the back one doesn't need a nob, and can make do with a big shoota (longer range)

nothing here is gospel, but you just needed some things to think about.

Thanks for the feedback this is my first go with Shockk Attack I usually run a KFF but with the cover changes to 6th I wanted to try some thing different. I'll take all of that into consideration and see if there are any changes to make.

At that point level I may try and re-work it to have three wagons for target saturation.
I'm assuming your getting shot off the board. Am I right?
This is looking, from the list anyway, like a mobility issue.
You need to close faster, and hit hard with a unified front when you do.
Also, the burnas look like free points from here since they are even less effective at range than normal boyz.
Maybe three mobs of boyz loaded in 3 BWs and give the wagons some more big shootas.
Drop the burnas for more lootas.
Keep the nobz and give them a trukk to Nob Bomb with (Keep it LOS behind the BWs)
Maybe replace the rokkit boyz with big shoota boyz.
Then push like crazy to close the gap.
I feel like deployment is harsh on Orks this edition with so much space in between us and all our more shooty opponents.

Yea I agree I typically get shot off the board. I do have the battlewagons to support that. ill put something together and add some trukks to deliver a nasty Nob squad... Ill see if I can post the changes after work tonight. i'm thinking of a 12 man boyz squad in a trukk to take close objectives late game as well. possibly in reserve .

Any thoughts on the trukk and boys squad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright lets try this as a replacement based on everyone's thoughts.

HQ
-------
Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

Troops
-------
3x 19 choppa slugga boys + Nob with PK BP and heavy armor (20 total)
Rokkit launcher on 1 boy and the Nob for each squad

1x 12 shoota boys + Trukk reinforced ram and big shoota (these will be my objective hunters or to provide support to my lootas if needed)


Elite
-------
10x Lootas
7x Nobz
Painboy, PK Waaagh! Banner, PK, 2X Big Choppa, 2X Choppa Slugga + Trukk reinforced ram and big shoota

Fast Attack
------
3x Deft Kopta ( non squadron taking 3 Fast Attack slots)
3x TL Rokkit Launcha
1x Buzz Saw

Heavy Support
-------
3x Battlewagon
Deffrolla, Armor Plates, and Big Shoota

Battlewagon's will transport all the boyz into combat with deff rollas, Koptas, and Lootas busting up armor (lootas will focus on pref AV11 targets). I like the advice about keeping the nob trukk behind the Battlewagon's and going on a Nob bombing run.

Are there any holes or strategy you can think of with this updated list?

 Sirgod2k1 wrote:
Yea I agree I typically get shot off the board. I do have the battlewagons to support that. ill put something together and add some trukks to deliver a nasty Nob squad... Ill see if I can post the changes after work tonight. i'm thinking of a 12 man boyz squad in a trukk to take close objectives late game as well. possibly in reserve .

Any thoughts on the trukk and boys squad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright lets try this as a replacement based on everyone's thoughts.

HQ
-------
Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

Troops
-------
3x 19 choppa slugga boys + Nob with PK BP and heavy armor (20 total)
Rokkit launcher on 1 boy and the Nob for each squad

1x 12 shoota boys + Trukk reinforced ram and big shoota (these will be my objective hunters or to provide support to my lootas if needed)


Elite
-------
10x Lootas
7x Nobz
Painboy, PK Waaagh! Banner, PK, 2X Big Choppa, 2X Choppa Slugga + Trukk reinforced ram and big shoota

Fast Attack
------
3x Deft Kopta ( non squadron taking 3 Fast Attack slots)
3x TL Rokkit Launcha
1x Buzz Saw

Heavy Support
-------
3x Battlewagon
Deffrolla, Armor Plates, and Big Shoota

Battlewagon's will transport all the boyz into combat with deff rollas, Koptas, and Lootas busting up armor (lootas will focus on pref AV11 targets). I like the advice about keeping the nob trukk behind the Battlewagon's and going on a Nob bombing run.

Are there any holes or strategy you can think of with this updated list?

Depending on how your opponent deploys, you may consider holding the Koptas in reserve and outflanking with them.
Also, Hook your SAG to the Lootas and have him ride around with them for a different twist. Just watch your movement.

For me personally I never put Buzzaws on the Deffkoptas as they should just keep moving and shooting things and not getting into comabt ever.

I also think the Big Choppas are not really worthwhile in Nob Squads as getting two Power Klaws would be better.

in the new Rules Choppoa/Slugga Boyz are just inferior to Shoota Boyz in just about every way, as on the charge you are only losing one attack and you usually have more than enough to hit most foes, but having better range and more shots with the Shootas is crucial as maximizing number of shots with Orks is key.

Plus there are not too many units that will want to charge a large number of Shootas and get overwatch fire into them, again based on number of shots they can throw out.

The SAG can be a lot of fun just be prepared for it to be unreliable in a very Orky way. As with most things Ork, you have to be prepared to take your lumps and not care about the casualties.

 Sirgod2k1 wrote:
Yea I agree I typically get shot off the board. I do have the battlewagons to support that. ill put something together and add some trukks to deliver a nasty Nob squad... Ill see if I can post the changes after work tonight. i'm thinking of a 12 man boyz squad in a trukk to take close objectives late game as well. possibly in reserve .

Any thoughts on the trukk and boys squad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright lets try this as a replacement based on everyone's thoughts.

HQ
-------
Big Mek
Shokk Attack Gun

Troops
-------
3x 19 choppa slugga boys + Nob with PK BP and heavy armor (20 total)
Rokkit launcher on 1 boy and the Nob for each squad

1x 12 shoota boys + Trukk reinforced ram and big shoota (these will be my objective hunters or to provide support to my lootas if needed)


Elite
-------
10x Lootas
7x Nobz
Painboy, PK Waaagh! Banner, PK, 2X Big Choppa, 2X Choppa Slugga + Trukk reinforced ram and big shoota

Fast Attack
------
3x Deft Kopta ( non squadron taking 3 Fast Attack slots)
3x TL Rokkit Launcha
1x Buzz Saw

Heavy Support
-------
3x Battlewagon
Deffrolla, Armor Plates, and Big Shoota

Battlewagon's will transport all the boyz into combat with deff rollas, Koptas, and Lootas busting up armor (lootas will focus on pref AV11 targets). I like the advice about keeping the nob trukk behind the Battlewagon's and going on a Nob bombing run.

Are there any holes or strategy you can think of with this updated list?

drop the shokk attack gun replace with KFF. point for point deff gun lootas are more effective than the shokk attack gun. and as for the KFF, it isnt as good as it was in 5th but its still a good upgrade to take for a big mek.
drop the rokkits from the boys and replace with big shootas (optional). this is more of preference towards hit probability. if you prefer to use rokkits then use them, but big shootas are cheaper while still providing ability to damage light armor and or take away HPs
drop eavy armor from nob bosses in ork boy mobs. you dont really need eavy armor as you can use those 5pts elsewhere.
drop the trukk and boyz inside. trukks are real easy VPs and KPs so if your going to run them, spam them as your main vehicle and target saturate the table.
drop trukk for nobz as they can take a battlewagon as a dedicated transport freeing up a heavy support slot for another battlewagon if points allow.
drop big choppas (optional). big choppas are good but PKs are better, but again its a matter of preference.
make all ork boy unts shoota boyz. shoota boyz are better overall compared to slugga boyz as they can overwatch better and engage targets further. their shootas also help them in softening up assualt targets better although sometimes this can cut off an assault, but can be solved by timing the assault tempo properly.
drop burnas (optional). this is again a matter of preference and personal tactics.
drop armor plates from battlewagons if points are needed.
drop buzz saw from deffkoptas. the buzz saws arent really needed as you dont want the deff koptas tied up in combat, you want them shooting those rokkits like mad.

if points allow
add more lootas preferably in 3 different units of at 10xlootas a piece minimum, but if you can only have two then max them out.
add another deff rolla battlewagon
add a warboss to make nobz scoring/troops

try that and post what you think will work for you.
remember to spam, spam, spam similar units and to time the assault tempo to increase success.

Lots of great advice there i do have some model restrictions so fielding more Battlewagons or Lootas will have to come later. I didn't think of over watch so I totally understand why shootas are a better call now. Thanks for the pointers I'll go review what I have and see what I can do.

I've got a basic mantra that I try to employ every time I use my orks.

There are two basic ways to play orks (with many variations): massive horde or hard, heavy and concentrated.

Depending on who you are playing, these are the two basic layouts you want to keep in mind.

Where I see a lot of people failing with orks are in two areas:

A) They try to mix hordey and hard
B) There's no symbiosis in the list (aka the unit choices don't play well with each other)

I see a couple of issues with your list if you're playing against SM. First and foremost, you have two vehicles. That's it. You aren't giving your opponent enough choices. He's going to take out your first BW, then your second BW. Then you're boned with no mobility.

Second, you're running squads of 20 boys. I don't know what the fixation of this is, but imo your boys squads should only ever come in two sizes: 12 and 30. 12 for trukks and 30 for foot slogging. (I would NEVER EVER EVER put boys in a BW)

Third: From a shooty perspective, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. You need to play to the strengths of your army. Many people think orks are bad at shooting. Nothing could be farther from the truth, you just have to exploit their strength behind shooting: Buckets of dice and twin linked buckets of dice.

Fourth: Along the lines of shooting here, I think you have your weapons mismatched for the job they're supposed to do. Drop the t-linked rokkits all together on your deffkoptas and take buzzsaws. Better yet, take a squad of 3-5 Nob Bikers with pklaws. those will be your tank hunting/early assault units.


My advice to you: either drop all of your vehicles all together and foot slog units fo 30 boys OR take waaaay more vehicles to saturate target prioritizing for your opponent.

How about 4 squads of 12 boys with a trukk each?
Take more lootas as well.


A good point for anyone who's playing nobz in 6e these days: If you're going to take nobz with pklaws and stick them in a transport... you're better off taking meganobz. They cost less, last longer and have t-linked shootas to boot. With the changes to wound allocation and slow and purposeful, nobz are less attractive and meganobz are more attractive. (At least in my opinion)

Also, with the changes to furious charge, running/assaulting and re-addition of overwatch... I no longer see a reason to take anything BUT shoota boyz with big shootas if you are foot slogging.


Here'a n interesting foot slog build you could start with:

HQ -
Mad Dok and Mega Armor WB

Troop
10 x Meganobz
2 x 30 x Shoota boyz, nob, pklaw, b pole, 3 x big shoota
1 x 30 Gretchin, 3 x runt herd

Elite
2 x 10 x lootas
3 x Nobz w/ warbikes, pklaws

The meganobz are a win-win no matter how the game plays out. Either he has to focus fire them and take them out as quickly as possible, or he has to ignore them all together.

If he FF them down, I bet it will take bare minimum of 2-3 rounds of shooting to kill them. (+2 with FNP and slap cybork on them if you expect hard shots). This means that your boyz are in his face without being touched.

IF he ignores them, or pokes them a bit... well.. the answer is simple. You've got 10 badass mofos who can cause significant damage in their face.

orkhammer wrote:
A good point for anyone who's playing nobz in 6e these days: If you're going to take nobz with pklaws and stick them in a transport... you're better off taking meganobz. They cost less, last longer and have t-linked shootas to boot. With the changes to wound allocation and slow and purposeful, nobz are less attractive and meganobz are more attractive. (At least in my opinion)

I'd disagree only in that Nobz are all characters and thus much more hardy than Megas.

 matphat wrote:

orkhammer wrote:
A good point for anyone who's playing nobz in 6e these days: If you're going to take nobz with pklaws and stick them in a transport... you're better off taking meganobz. They cost less, last longer and have t-linked shootas to boot. With the changes to wound allocation and slow and purposeful, nobz are less attractive and meganobz are more attractive. (At least in my opinion)

I'd disagree only in that Nobz are all characters and thus much more hardy than Megas.

I see it both ways. Its really all in what you are looking for. The Nobs still have a bit better options with waagh banner and pain boy. The Manz have 2+ armor. I have always loved my Manz and this edition makes them even more appealing to me. But I do see how the reg Nobs are still a nice choice. If you are going with Nobs then just make them bikes and have even a better unit. Albiet a bit more with the points.

orkhammer wrote:

Here'a n interesting foot slog build you could start with:

HQ -
Mad Dok and Mega Armor WB

Troop
10 x Meganobz
2 x 30 x Shoota boyz, nob, pklaw, b pole, 3 x big shoota
1 x 30 Gretchin, 3 x runt herd

Elite
2 x 10 x lootas
3 x Nobz w/ warbikes, pklaws

The meganobz are a win-win no matter how the game plays out. Either he has to focus fire them and take them out as quickly as possible, or he has to ignore them all together.

If he FF them down, I bet it will take bare minimum of 2-3 rounds of shooting to kill them. (+2 with FNP and slap cybork on them if you expect hard shots). This means that your boyz are in his face without being touched.

IF he ignores them, or pokes them a bit... well.. the answer is simple. You've got 10 badass mofos who can cause significant damage in their face.

space wolve missile spam and heavy shooting necrons can drop this list easy.

Most lists have a hard counter or bad match up - for horde orks it will usually involve missile launchers.

This means that any missile launchers need to be priority number one for your lootas.

 Gutstuf Ugfang wrote:

orkhammer wrote:

Here'a n interesting foot slog build you could start with:

HQ -
Mad Dok and Mega Armor WB

Troop
10 x Meganobz
2 x 30 x Shoota boyz, nob, pklaw, b pole, 3 x big shoota
1 x 30 Gretchin, 3 x runt herd

Elite
2 x 10 x lootas
3 x Nobz w/ warbikes, pklaws

The meganobz are a win-win no matter how the game plays out. Either he has to focus fire them and take them out as quickly as possible, or he has to ignore them all together.

If he FF them down, I bet it will take bare minimum of 2-3 rounds of shooting to kill them. (+2 with FNP and slap cybork on them if you expect hard shots). This means that your boyz are in his face without being touched.

IF he ignores them, or pokes them a bit... well.. the answer is simple. You've got 10 badass mofos who can cause significant damage in their face.

space wolve missile spam and heavy shooting necrons can drop this list easy.

yes and the sky is blue. he's not playing space wolves or necrons. Don't see the point in your post.

orkhammer wrote:
I've got a basic mantra that I try to employ every time I use my orks.
There are two basic ways to play orks (with many variations): massive horde or hard, heavy and concentrated.
Depending on who you are playing, these are the two basic layouts you want to keep in mind.
Where I see a lot of people failing with orks are in two areas:
A) They try to mix hordey and hard
B) There's no symbiosis in the list (aka the unit choices don't play well with each other)
I see a couple of issues with your list if you're playing against SM.
First and foremost, you have two vehicles. That's it. You aren't giving your opponent enough choices. He's going to take out your first BW, then your second BW. Then you're boned with no mobility.
Second, you're running squads of 20 boys. I don't know what the fixation of this is, but imo your boys squads should only ever come in two sizes: 12 and 30. 12 for trukks and 30 for foot slogging. (I would NEVER EVER EVER put boys in a BW)
Third: From a shooty perspective, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. You need to play to the strengths of your army. Many people think orks are bad at shooting. Nothing could be farther from the truth, you just have to exploit their strength behind shooting: Buckets of dice and twin linked buckets of dice.
Fourth: Along the lines of shooting here, I think you have your weapons mismatched for the job they're supposed to do. Drop the t-linked rokkits all together on your deffkoptas and take buzzsaws. Better yet, take a squad of 3-5 Nob Bikers with pklaws. those will be your tank hunting/early assault units.
My advice to you: either drop all of your vehicles all together and foot slog units fo 30 boys OR take waaaay more vehicles to saturate target prioritizing for your opponent.
How about 4 squads of 12 boys with a trukk each?
Take more lootas as well.
A good point for anyone who's playing nobz in 6e these days: If you're going to take nobz with pklaws and stick them in a transport... you're better off taking meganobz. They cost less, last longer and have t-linked shootas to boot. With the changes to wound allocation and slow and purposeful, nobz are less attractive and meganobz are more attractive. (At least in my opinion)
Also, with the changes to furious charge, running/assaulting and re-addition of overwatch... I no longer see a reason to take anything BUT shoota boyz with big shootas if you are foot slogging.

my point is exactly what was stated earlier. the ork footslogging list quoted above would be a poor suggestion because a space wolves long fang missile spam list and a heavy shooting necron list can shoot this list into the ground and its also illegal,1760/1750pt cap.

also to add to what i posted earlier,
the point of a battlewagon is to deliver more boyz than a trukk can while providing better armor protection and can serve as a deffrolling anti tank weapon to pop open tanks so the boyz can shoot whatever models are still alive from the vehicle being destroyed or as soon as the battlewagon drops off its cargo, it just speeds across the table deffrolling whatever you choose. using trukks is alright if you spam them to their max and even then its easy to halt their mobility and force you to footslogg the rest of the way there with what ever boyz you have left. theyre only armor 10, a bolter salvo can stop a truck.

if your going to be dumping points into nob bikers dont take them in small units. yes, they'll get wound shenanigans, but you only have 3 all swinging at initiative 1, only 9 shots among the 3, makeing a Ld 7 check as soon as one dies, and cant tank hunt as early as deff koptas can.

and as for nobz being less attractive than meganobz, nobz can be put on bikes making them more effective and mobile than meganobz.